Comment · Thu, August 7, 2025 · ND Owner
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NDSocialMedia · 74 points
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What they were answering
AAAUUUUAUAUAUUAUA · 1 points
Yeah, there are a lot of question marks around it, maybe they removed the 0.5 claim because they couldnt consistently standardise for that, no clue honestly.
Very much looking forward to a fruiting body extract with known levels of bioactives, even if they are not standardised for honestly, would just be interesting to know. Hope it comes out in the near future, looking forward to it!
I think i said the same thing in that thread that i mentioned earlier, while there may be some truth to extracted lions mane being better than just raw mushroom, at the end of the day, if it shows an effect in controlled studies, there is probably something going on. Thats kind of how i feel with the amyloban too lol, even if i dont know whats going on, or why something is happening, if something is happening that needs to be explained and cant be handwaived away by "theory" that says it shouldnt happen.
Thats very cool and very exciting, both the research and erinamax being used by other companies. Also, please make some kind of reddit post when the research is released, or hell, even dm me or send it to me via owl or pigeon, ill take what i can get!
Thats more than understandable, reddit is a cesspool lol. It is definitely nice that you guys are actually active on here though and engage with your community and answer questions etc, i/ we definitely appreciate you guys for that, makes ND qui…
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · ND Owner
Very much looking forward to a fruiting body extract with known levels of bioactives, even if they are not standardised for honestly, would just be interesting to know. Hope it comes out in the near future, looking forward to it!
Well you don't have to wait. Our current batch of 1:1 has 0.329% hericenes and hericenones. That's the one on the shelf right now.
It's $19.99, too. We have one of the world's strongest lion's mane fruiting body products, and it's one of the cheapest, and we have been selling it for over 10 years. We just didn't know how much hericenes and hericenones were in it till we built and validated the methods. We will just move to the slightly higher batch for the next run.
I think i said the same thing in that thread that i mentioned earlier, while there may be some truth to extracted lions mane being better than just raw mushroom
To be clear, we do extract all our fruiting body mushrooms. All our 1:1 products are put through an 80*C hot water lossless extraction to break down the cell walls. This doesn't denature the chitin. The temp is too low for that. What it does is breaks down the complex chitin-cellulose fiber complexes that make up the cell walls of the mushroom itself. Let's take a look at the cell wall of fungi as an example.
Here is the cell wall of fungi.
So you hear people say that mushroom cell walls are made up of chitin, and humans don't have a chitinase enzyme (also not true). Well look at the actual structure of the cell wall. Chitin is in there, but the mass of the cell wall is mostly other shit. So you don't actually need to break down chitin itself to break down the cell wall of a mushroom. You just need to break down the glucan complexes bound to the chitin. Most of the glucans in mushrooms break down around 80*C, which is why our process does that. It softens and breaks the fibers that make up the cell wall, and releases the compounds inside the fungal cells. The chitin is still there, but it really acts as an insoluble fiber at that point. The structure of the cell wall itself is broken down, so the bioactives in the cells come out. Chitin itself doesn't need to change at all.
So let's discuss humans ability to break down chitin itself. The enzyme in the human GI tract that can break down chitin is called AMCase. An Italian study showed that AMCase was present in the gastric juices of 20 out of 25 subjects they tested. So a majority of humans have some ability to break down chitin itself in the GI tract directly using enzymatic activity. Moreover, specific amino acid substitutions (N45, D47, and R61) can significantly increase the activity of human AMCase. So some people are very good at breaking down chitin in the GI tract. Then you come to the immune-mediated response. The stomach uses an immune-mediated circuit to digest chitin through a system involving type 2 innate lymphoid cells (ILC2). These immune cells induce the production of AMCase to degrade chitin in response to dietary intake.
Human gastric juice contains chitinase that can degrade chitin
Chitin, Chitinase Responses, and Invasive Fungal Infections
Loss and Gain of Human Acidic Mammalian Chitinase Activity by Nonsynonymous SNPs
A type 2 immune circuit in the stomach controls mammalian adaptation to dietary chitin
The Immune System Helps with Digestion
So those are the direct mechanisms. There is evidence that most humans have enzymes that can break down chitin. Then there is even more evidence that most people have enzymes that can at least break down parts of the chitin structures themselves, destroying the fungal cell wall. Then you get to the probiotic and microbiome ones. Certain strains of probiotic bacteria in the gut have been shown to break down chitin, particularly Clostridium paraputrificum J4.
So the idea that humans just can't break down chitin is not true. Most humans can, and the vast majority have other enzymes or probotics that can at least break down the chitin complexes. On top of that, you don't even need to break down chitin itself to break open the cell wall of the mushroom. So this story being spread around that mushrooms are not bioavailable without extraction is not backed by the data.
Thats kind of how i feel with the amyloban too lol, even if i dont know whats going on, or why something is happening, if something is happening that needs to be explained and cant be handwaived away by "theory" that says it shouldnt happen.
Just to be clear, I am not hand waiving the possibility that Amyloban is having positive effects. It very well might be. I am just saying that is only part of the story with scientific accuracy. Standardizations and claims matter just as much as effects. If a company makes a claim, they need to be able to back that claim up with valid chemistry.
Thats very cool and very exciting, both the research and erinamax being used by other companies. Also, please make some kind of reddit post when the research is released, or hell, even dm me or send it to me via owl or pigeon, ill take what i can get!
We will certain make posts about it. We are being a lot more proactive with publicizing new stuff recently.
Thats more than understandable, reddit is a cesspool lol. It is definitely nice that you guys are actually active on here though and engage with your community and answer questions etc, i/ we definitely appreciate you guys for that, makes ND quite unique and is a very big plus for me. Buuuut you probably shouldnt be on it any longer than you have to lol.
Yeah, I certainly don't mind interacting here on our subreddit. I more mean Reddit as a whole, and other subs, that can be very toxic.
While i know you guys like to be precise and standardise your products, do you happen to have any other data on the amount of other bioactives for products that are either ratio products like lions mane or for "off targets" in other products for example other flavonoids in the nobiletin extract or even ratios of different bioactives in products like your ashwagandha or ginger extract, for example 7% gingerols and 3% shogaols. Im not sure if this is anything that could be done, but as a customer i do often wonder how much other stuff is in there, since those "off target" compounds that arent being standardised for contribute to the effect.
That's a complex question. With chemistry, you have to really know what you are looking for, or you don't really see things. There's no real way to do accurate untargeted assays for things you don't know are in there. We always work towards eventual standardization to a grouping of bioactives. We have done some really cool work with PurityIQ using their untargeted quantitative NMR technique, though. We are actually working with them on a paper right now. Ellie, my science director, is going to present at the AOAC conference this month in San Diego. I will be there as well. So we are doing work there, but it is always in furtherance of eventually standardizing to groups of bioactives using something like UPLC.