Comment · Wed, January 12, 2022 · ND Owner
NMN formulation change
Original post in this thread
ROTHUM2 · 38 points
Has anyone else noticed a difference in efficacy between the old NMN tablets (sized like a small cylinder) versus the new one (sized like a small disc)?
I thought it was placebo at first, but with the old NMN, I noticed a profound increase in energy and well being. With the new NMN (disc shape), I notice nothing.
Thinking I may be tricking myself, I experimented on my wife. When I give her the old NMN, her energy noticeably improved. When I give her the new one, no difference.
I’m curious if anyone else has had this experience. I know /u/MisterYouAreSoDumb has mentioned the enteric coating on the new NMN is superior, but I can’t help but notice my consistent, personal experience.
UPDATE (Feb 2022)
They must have gone through several iterations, because the magic is back on my latest purchase. I’ve seen 3 different tablets — the cylinder (original), a larger flat circle with a powdery exterior, and the most recent, a smaller circle with a smoother exterior.
The only version that didn’t work for me was the one with the powdery exterior. The newest version works GREAT, perhaps even better than the original.
What they were answering
Nemesis_Ra_Algoras · 3 points
wow damn, didn't know most vendors were confusing customers like this, it's like saying a statistical mixture of quantum states is the same as an entangled state! I'm not sure if the liposomal products I bought from another vendor is legit...
I remember reading an article from a vendor claiming they cracked the membrane of reishi spores to get the good stuff out, using something like millstones (LOL?). I didn't believe that.
I recently obtained my PhD in theoretical astrophysics, but I'm looking to switch field, e.g. anti-aging drug discovery, gene editing, as it benefits human directly. I have been educating myself on some AI techniques in medical diagnosis, prognosis, treatment. Read a paper on AI predicting drug-drug interactions. But to be honest, I don't know where to start. I can't understand some of what you said about how should one properly encapsulate a drug in a liposome, it sounds fun though... A lot of stuff to learn down the road!
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · ND Owner
wow damn, didn't know most vendors were confusing customers like this, it's like saying a statistical mixture of quantum states is the same as an entangled state! I'm not sure if the liposomal products I bought from another vendor is legit...
This is the issue I have with pretty much everyone in the supplement industry. They don't do what is needed to prove what they are selling is what they claim. Could the products be legit? Perhaps. Our data shows they are not most of the time, but sometimes they are. However, it means nothing if they don't prove it BEFORE selling to customers. Any old Joe Schmo off the street can contact a contract manufacturer to have a product made for them, then just trust the manufacturer's claims and COAs and sell to people. Vendors should be held to a higher standard. This industry is saturated with people trying to make a quick buck off people. Most of the time people just don't know what they don't know. They are ignorant to how difficult it is to do things right. That's not excusable in and of itself. You can't just feign ignorance when someone calls you out for not doing the steps needed to ensure what you are selling to customers is as you claim. This is a business. It's a company's responsibility to verify the things they sell. A construction company can't just claim ignorance on how steel should be properly made when one of their buildings fails. "Ohh, the steel manufacturer told us the steel was good! See, here are the documents claiming it was good steel!" It doesn't work like that. You have to prove the shit you are using to make your products is made correctly. It's the same in every industry. It should be no different in dietary supplements. People are putting this shit into their bodies. Vendors have to step up and ensure they are verifying their products are as they claim using validated science before a customer ever puts it into their body.
You can't imagine the work we put into bringing out new products. We have products that we have literally been working on for over 5 years. Maybe the science is not fully fleshed out yet. Maybe there are no reference standards. Maybe the chromatography is just not working to our standards in the lab. Maybe heavy metals specs are just not coming in low enough for us to put our name behind it. We literally spend millions of dollars trying to solve these things BEFORE WE SELL TO CUSTOMERS!!! Then we have competitors YOLO into shit willy nilly, and start selling shit we know is fake or not as they claim. You know how frustrated I am every day because of this?!? I have been trying for almost a decade now to get consumers in this community to care about these things as much as I do, and hold these companies accountable. When I got into this, nobody even asked for COAs, much less thought about their validity. At least people ask now. However, they still take the COA at face value. Some of our competitors' COAs literally have FAILING RESULTS posted on them... Shit literally says "FAILED" on some stuff that they post up as the COA proving their product is good. It's madness! Even results that are not clearly failing are using improper chemistry. Good luck getting consumers in this space to jump into that pool.
Take maca for example. We have been trying to bring out our own maca for years. Most of the shit on the market is high in heavy metals. That is a hurdle that is difficult to overcome, as most of the bulk materials you get from suppliers is high in one or more heavy metal. Nobody is really testing shit properly, nor holding things to the correct standard, so there is no incentive for these bulk manufacturers to change their processes. Then you come to actually testing the macamides and macaenes. There are no properly validated analytical methods for macamides and macaenes right now. None. We have built our own UPLC methods for it. Well the chemistry is just not working out well. They are not soluble enough in the various solvents used in the mobile phase to separate things out properly on a C18 column. We get some separation, and we do get peaks for the various macamides and macaenes. However, the chromatography is not good enough for us to say they are accurate enough to use for QC work. Eurofins offers macamide and macaene assay testing. However, they are using GARBAGE chemistry to do it. They are not using ANY REFERENCE STANDARDS in the testing!!! Their reference standard is a customer sample that was sent to them a while ago... So they are using an old sample sent to them by a customer as their analytical reference standard that is being used as a calibration curve to assay other samples. When pressed on it, they told us: "uh, our method isn't really an analytical method, its a QC method..." Uhh, QC just means quality control. If the method is not validated to be accurate and precise, you can't use it for quality control!!! You certainly can't make assay claims on actives inside the extract with it. Every other lab in the US that we have contacted says they won't test maca. We have contacted pretty much everyone. So that means nobody is properly assaying maca right now. NOBODY! All the maca on the market being sold right now has not been properly assayed for the very actives inside of it. So we sit here spending money for years trying to solve the science while our competitors sell untested shit to consumers and profit off people's ignorance. That's just one product. We have run into this same shit countless times over the years. It's a battle we fight every day. The validity, accuracy, and precision of the lab testing being done on these products is just as important as whether or not lab testing is being done at all. We are holding things to such a higher standard than everyone else, it's crazy. Then I have to watch our competitors basically defraud everyone for years, all the while profiting off things I know for a fact are not correct. If I try to convince people they should care about this, I get attacked with claims that I am just making up lies to try and sell more product... Yeah, I am trying to sell more product THAT WE HAVE NOT RELEASED YET! Riddle me that, Riddler!
Anyway, I am ranting now. This is not an isolated problem. It is a systemic issue across this entire industry that we are fighting every single day. Almost nobody is properly testing their products. Billions of dollars in supplements are sold every year to consumers without even the slightest bit of proper lab testing to prove they are what they claim to be. Everyone just accepts this at the moment. People want to trust things. They certainly don't want to admit that the products they have been consuming for years have never been tested properly. This is what I have been trying to change for almost a decade now. It's just a very hard thing to change. There is a lot of money in keeping the status quo the way it is. It's expensive and time-consuming to do things right. It's much easier to just sell untested shit to people. My entire mission is to change that part of this industry. It needs to change.