Comment · Tue, January 11, 2022 · ND Owner
NMN formulation change
Original post in this thread
ROTHUM2 · 38 points
Has anyone else noticed a difference in efficacy between the old NMN tablets (sized like a small cylinder) versus the new one (sized like a small disc)?
I thought it was placebo at first, but with the old NMN, I noticed a profound increase in energy and well being. With the new NMN (disc shape), I notice nothing.
Thinking I may be tricking myself, I experimented on my wife. When I give her the old NMN, her energy noticeably improved. When I give her the new one, no difference.
I’m curious if anyone else has had this experience. I know /u/MisterYouAreSoDumb has mentioned the enteric coating on the new NMN is superior, but I can’t help but notice my consistent, personal experience.
UPDATE (Feb 2022)
They must have gone through several iterations, because the magic is back on my latest purchase. I’ve seen 3 different tablets — the cylinder (original), a larger flat circle with a powdery exterior, and the most recent, a smaller circle with a smoother exterior.
The only version that didn’t work for me was the one with the powdery exterior. The newest version works GREAT, perhaps even better than the original.
What they were answering
Nemesis_Ra_Algoras · 1 points
liposomal?
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · ND Owner
Most of the liposomal shit on the market is a fraud. We have been doing a lot of testing in the lab on that, as we have been trying to bring out our own liposomal versions of things. What we have discovered is that pretty much all the generic liposomal shit on the market is not real. They are just mixing active ingredients together with soy lecithin in a sonicator and calling it liposomal. That's NOT how you create liposomal particles... That' just creates a random mixture of the active and soy lecithin at varying particle sizes. It doesn't create fully enveloped liposomal particles in the 100nm range or smaller. I do think the idea of liposomes themselves is valid. Liposomes are used in the pharma industry all the time. The mRNA COVID vaccines use a liposome to envelop the actives and protect them. However, do you think Pfizer is just chucking some mRNA in a sonicator with soy lecithin and calling it a day? LOL.
The process for creating real liposomes is much more complex than that. After speaking to the manufacturers people are using to sell these supposed "liposomal" products, they have no idea what they are doing. On top of that, they are not providing any QC lab data showing the liposomal particles were actually formed, the average size, or the particle size distribution. Creating real liposomes requires more complex processes like thin-film hydration with the Bangham method. That method involves dissolution of the lipid in an organic solvent, evaporation of the solvent, and the dispersion of the obtained lipid film in aqueous media. The type of lipid used will depend on the chemical properties of the active ingredient you are enveloping. The compound to be entrapped can be included in the aqueous media (for hydrophilic drugs) or in the lipid film (for lipophilic drugs). However, the encapsulation efficiency of water-soluble drugs is low (5%–15%). Moreover, this method produces large and nonhomogeneous MLVs that require sonication or extrusion processes to be produced in homogeneous small ULVs. This means that you have further processing to get the particle size down and have a more consistent particle size distribution. So this is much more complicated than just mixing shit in a sonicator with soy lecithin and calling it a day. After testing and speaking with the manufacturers supplying most of the generic "liposome" shit on the market, this is NOT happening. Even if it was, no proper QC lab work is being done to prove it.
Creating it is only one part. You have to prove you created it properly. We have been trying to use SEM/TEM and flow cytometry to figure out the best way to create standardized QC lab testing to ensure things are actually in liposomes. We also may be able to make some HP-TLC methods for more rapid and regular QC testing. However, more complex particle science needs to happen at the start to prove what you have created are liposomes. Any old schmuck can toss random shit in a sonicator with soy lecithin and lie to people about it being a liposome. It takes actual science to do things properly. Unfortunately, that seems to be pretty complex most of the time, and nobody in the industry is doing it. There is no way I am going to put my reputation and the Nootropics Depot name behind products that we have not fully validated in the lab first. We are working on it, though. Once we are absolutely sure we have made something properly, only then will we release it. It would be much easier if I just took manufacturer's words for it, and YOLOed it like our competitors. However, that's not what we do at ND, nor is it the standard I feel should be common in this industry. It's up to the vendors that sell these things to prove to customers that what they are consuming is exactly as they claim it is, and use valid and precise science to do it. That is not happening across this industry, unfortunately.