Comment · Mon, April 20, 2015 · Ceretropic
Best you've ever felt from nootropics - what did you take?
What they were answering
adderallworks · 1 points
Do you really think that the primate models will show dopaminergic damage, where humans won't?
Pound P, Ebrahim S, Sandercock P, Bracken MB, Roberts I (2004). Where is the evidence that animal research benefits humans? BMJ 328:514-7.
There are significant differences in metabolism of drugs
Kling J (1996). In vitro models for in vivo drug profiles. Nature Biotech.14:1655-1656.
Someone who clearly uses Adderall, making unsubstantiated claims that "there's almost no risks" with its use
There are almost no risks associated with the recommended usage by a well trained physician.
Then when presented with a contrary study, picks the only line in the abstract that would cast any doubt.
Actually, it was pretty much the conclusion.
No, as long as a doctor prescribes it, it's perfectly safe.
Actually, that's pretty much what physicians are trained to do.
No need to look further, and possibly find way to mitigate any risks
Never said that.
You are quite knowledgable as I've seen from a variety of your posts. I respect that, but I felt like voicing an opinion.
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · Ceretropic
The conclusion was that the results showed that we need to study it further, because damage was seen in primates. If no damage was seen, then they would not say more studies were needed to assess whether or not therapeutic dosages damage dopaminergic neurons in humans, because that would not go against the common conception that amphetamine is safe.
You cannot honestly say there are almost no risks from using a strong dopaminergic drug like amphetamine regularly. Primate models are extremely close to humans. If there is dopaminergic damage to primates, there is a very very high possibility that is happening in humans too. We can argue about other animal models, like mice and rats, and certainly make the case that they might not translate to humans. However, we are so close to primates, that the likelihood the results do not have bearing on humans is very low. It's just that funding and ethical concerns, make primate studies a lot less used than mice and rats. However, this study certainly raises a lot of concern for risks with regular amphetamine use in humans. Sure, it's not proof. However, it certainly denotes risk.
I know you want to appeal to the expertise of physicians, and the general knowledge of the medical community. However, very rarely do I meet a physician that I would consider well-trained on pharmacology and damage to dopaminergic brain systems. And the general consensus of the scientific community on the safety of drugs has been proven wrong more times than I can count. I just think it is dangerous to spread the notion that amphetamine has almost no risks when used as your doctor prescribes. My friend has a doctor that gives him 120 10mg Dexedrine pills a month. The doctor also gives him 30 50mg Vyvanse a month, for longer action. Then when my friend told him he was having trouble sleeping, he gave him 30 2mg Xanax bars a month. Not once did he mention things like magnesium to protect from excitotoxicity, or that taking all those substances had risks. There a many of those doctors out there, and most people would put their trust in them to be qualified, and be giving them a safe dosage. Just Google a bit "Dexedrine dosage" or "Adderall Dosage" and see what dose some people on the ADHD forums are taking daily, at their doctors request. It is pretty crazy.
So I am not against Amphetamine usage, and understand that it can be used safely, and does improve a lot of people's lives. However, I think we need to have a frank discussion on the possibility that it is not as safe as a lot of people think it is.