Comment · Thu, April 25, 2013

MDMA: The 'Dont Re-dose' advice?

Original post in this thread

KosherDev · 25 points

So this came up in another thread and people suggested I make my way over here for a more specific answer.

We've all heard the general advice of not re-dosing on mdma to minimize any potential harmful after effects. It makes sense but is it the act of just 'taking more' that could cause issues, or is it the actual time separation?

So the example. You take an initial 120mg dose, and then a subsequent 60mg dose an hour or so later for a grand total of 180mg.

Vs.

One initial dose of 180mg.

Are they equally 'bad' or does the subsequent dosage cause more complications than one large initial dose? If so, why?

What they were answering

susquehannock · 1 points

Thank you, I appreciate that.

This I one of the drawback of reddit and all social media - it needs something like a web publishing app that works alongside with imgur, so links and documents can be stored against the flow.

Obviously, with my epidemiological talk, I do not believe that mdma neurotoxicity is a significant problem. We accept much greater risks in many other sectors of life, alarmism about illegal drug risks is a social phenomenon, an extension of religious prejudice, and their is a huge industry devoted to exaggerating the risks for political purposes.

But, I am a geek, so I like studies.

u/MisterYouAreSoDumb

Also, if you are interested in more reading, here are some more. There are very recent ones in there, as well as some back to 1999.

Here's one that found a reduction in SERT in former ecstasy users

Here's another one that had similar results

Here's one that noted "long-lasting changes in brain function consistent with 5-HT toxicity"

Here's one that found decreased serotonin binding in users

Here's one that found long-term effects effects on central neuronal activity in humans

Here's one that found a long-lasting increase in cortical excitability in former users

Here's one that found reduced cortical SERT binding in former users after months of abstinence

Here's one that found NO improvement in verbal memory in former users 2.5 years of abstinence

Here's one that found long lasting serotonin system impairment in former users

Evidence from human studies has accumulated more slowly, but it is becoming apparent that the toxic effect of MDMA on central serotonergic systems found previously in animal studies has a clear parallel in human users of the drug.There is now direct evidence of a lasting decrease in 5-HT uptake sites (a marker for the integrity of 5-HT nerve terminals) in human volunteers with a past history of MDMA abuse

Here's the source

This meta-study found CLEAR evidence of neurocognitive decline in former MDMA users and clearly states there is DIRECT evidence for neurotoxicity.

Here's one from Hong Kong that found abstinent users were impaired in memory, verbal fluency, and complex attention

Here's another that found memory impairments and the researchers believe it is directly caused by Serotonergic neurotoxicty

Here's one that found memory impairments in abstinent users and evidence of PFC dysfunction

Here's one that found a direct relationship between amount of usage and amount of declarative memory deficit

Here's one that found that heavy users had a weaker blood oxygenation level-dependent response during a working memory task

Here's one that found hippocampal damage in chronic users

Here's one that found diminished hippocampal activation during memory retrieval

Here's one that found toxic effects on the thalamus

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