Comment · Sat, July 22, 2023 · ND Owner
Deception in Dietary Supplements: Fake Labs, Faulty Data, and COA Red Flags
What they were answering
DDsPLZ · 9 points
Given the existence of "dry labs" offering COA's, i.e. an empty building that will sell you whatever COA you like... aren't COA's useless?
I see people tell me not to buy from ND because they don't have third party COA's, when I explain the dry lab thing to them they either block me or tell me I'm an ND shill lmao.
Even with ND I'm trusting blindly though, lets face it, we aren't testing our products ourselves.
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · ND Owner
I mean, yes... somewhat for the average consumer. This is why we made this video. COAs aren't totally useless, as you can spot inconsistencies and get a better idea of whether or not the brand has any idea about analytical chemistry or a quality system. However, the average consumer won't know enough to do that.
The argument from these other brands that their 3rd party COAs from fake dry labs, or labs doing shitty chemistry, are better than me spending a decade building a world class analytical lab of my own is just hilarious! We've tested their products that they have posted these "totally legit COAs" for, and they have all failed for their claims. We have sent samples of our own to these same labs, just to test them on their results, and they have sent fraudulent COAs back to us. We sent fucking multiple samples of yeast extract to one of the labs claiming to test lion's mane for erinacines and hericenones, and told them it was lion's mane with what we thought was differing amounts of erinacines and hericenones (1%, 2%, 5%, etc.). They came back and gave us COAs confirming it was lion's mane with just over the content of erinacines and hericenone... only after we paid them, of course! Yeah, that's totally better than me spending almost $10 million to build a lab they couldn't even dream of building. Then you have the real labs that just do shitty chemistry. They are not fake dry labs, because they actually do some testing. However, the testing is faulty, and doesn't really tell people what they think it is. Hell, many of these labs just use peak purity on an HPLC. Then these brands show these chromatograms with one peak on it saying 100%, and they say that means the sample is 100% pure! It's fucking insanity! These other brands try to muddy the waters because they are incapable of doing what I have done. This just in, brands without an in-house ISO accredited lab try to convince consumers that not having a lab is better than having one... Yeah, let's just trust brands that don't understand analytical chemistry, send samples to random labs, then get back data that they are intellectually incapable of of understanding.
I ranted about it recently as well, if you have not seen it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NootropicsDepot/comments/14r2kt1/questions_about_nootropics_depot/jqtgei6/
I am going to be a lot more forceful with this shit going forward. It's straight up fraud and deception by our competitors. I am going to just start testing everyone's products and releasing the results again. Then they can sue me if they want, and I will counter-sue. Hell, I think I will just start filing lawsuits of my own soon. I have the legal team all set up, and we are ready to pull the trigger with suits that will probably destroy many brands. I've just held off because it's stressful. However, sitting back and watching consumers be defrauded by our competitors is stressful, too! Now they are trying to convince consumers that this fucking amazing thing I have built in our lab is a bad thing? It's so fucking pathetic. They wish they had the capabilities we have...