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Comment · Mon, April 5, 2021 · ND Owner

Different batch of adrafinil capsules?

Original post in this thread

ilovea1steaksauce · 4 points

So I had been buying ND adrafinil powder until they ran out. So I bought a 30 capsule bottle, and all was well. I then bought another that arrived like a week ago. Well, the powder in the capsules smells completely different this time. It formally (both powder and caps) had a rubbery taste, quite distinctive. This bottle has almost no smell, and I for some reason am getting zero effects from it. Where before 450mg of adrafinil was perfect, ive tried a dose all the way up to 1200mg and still, nothing.. waited 5 days, tried 600mg also, no effects. For context, I would take adrafinil 3 days a week, on an alternating schedule. Any insight as to why this would be? ND depot has always had top notch quality and excellent product. Should I reach out to their customer support? Has anyone had a similar experience with ND adrafinil?

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Direct reply to the original post — see the thread post above.

u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · ND Owner

What were your lot numbers? I can already tell you the raw material used is the exact same in all of them, though. They are likely the exact same batch. I can confirm based on the lot numbers. Even if they were different raw material batches, the purity would be the same. We also NMR every batch of adrafinil, and have for years, because it has an interesting crystal structure that can reflect light differently. This is why you had those pink/white batch differences. It was nothing different chemically. It was a difference in crystal structure. Well that crystal structure can also bend infrared light differently, too. So FTIR was not an appropriate methodology for ID. For basically 4 years we have been running every single batch through the NMR, as that measures the hydrogens to tell you the exact chemical structure. Then obviously HPLC for assay.

Now I will say there has been debate about the white/pink adrafinil things for years. Basically since I started Ceretropic in 2013 people were adamant that one batch worked and another didn't, even though chemically they were identical. Some people said the white batches worked, but the pink didn't. Other people said the opposite. There was not consistency in reports. For years we had no idea what made one batch white and one pink. We did all sorts of testing on them to see. We thought it might be a trace level difference in iron content, but our testing of that over years showed that trace iron levels did not correlate with color. We thought maybe there was a different in the isomers. Maybe one synthesis method was leading to more/less of one of the isomers? However, our polarimeter testing over the years has shown all synths to be racemic, so that was not it. It was only last year that we discovered/proved what it actually was. This is because we started synthesizing adrafinil ourselves at our lab in the EU. There we could actually play around with the synthesis methods and final crystallization steps to really figure out what the deal is. What we found out is that what dictates the color is how the adrafinil recrystallizes in the final steps of the synthesis. The pink color is not coming from anything in the adrafinil. It's coming from the adrafinil itself. You can crystallize it so that the crystal particles bend the light entering it in such a way that it reflects back to your eyes pink/salmon. In fact, we have been able to make other colors, too! It's pretty sweet! The only way you can tell the difference is using X-ray crystallography, which is very uncommon in chemistry labs. It's really a particle science, not a chemical science. Almost nobody you speak to will have any idea what you are talking about. It's taken us years to solve this issue. I read some hints of it in a Cephalon patent years ago, but I had no way to prove it till last year.

So what does crystal structure have to do with efficacy? Well not a whole lot in many cases, as the fact that the molecule is water-soluble will mean the particle structure itself doesn't affect a whole lot. This is because it will go into solution when it comes into contact with water. A molecule in solution no longer has a crystal structure. However, what about molecules that are not water-soluble? Well that gets a lot more complex. Adrafinil is not water-soluble. It's not soluble in almost anything, actually; at least nothing safe to consume as a human. So this is where crystal structure can come into play. We have a theory (based on a lot of research, practical testing, and reading of pharmaceutical patents) that the crystal structure/polymorph of non-water-soluble molecules has an effect on the pharmacokinetics of that molecule in the human body. This is because you don't get the benefit of immediately going into solution in the GI tract. You have to rely on the crystal particles reaching the mucus membranes and absorbing directly. We think the size and shape of those crystalline particles can affect how efficiently some people's membranes can capture and absorb said particles. We are in the process of determining which crystal structure works best in most people, since we have figured out how to make multiple different types of polymorphs. One of them is literally mint green! Remember Breaking Bad, where they made their product blue? It seemed like just a TV trope that was not based in actual chemistry. However, it is looking more and more like we actually can control how light is reflected back out of a crystalline powder based on how we do those final recrystallization steps. It's all in how the crystal particles absorb/reflect the wavelengths that enter them, and that is not always a chemical process. It's a physical process, too. Insanely fascinating!

That being said, all our work on crystal structures is happening in an R&D sense right now. All our production batches for the past couple years have been the same synthesis process with the same final crystallization steps. The batches you got should have all been the same from a polymorph standpoint. However, I can look up the details if I know the lot numbers.

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