MDMA Neurotoxicity Part 1 Metabolites)

Post · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 129 pts

This is probably going to be the first in a series of discussions I start about MDMA. There's just too much information for one post. Therefore, I am going to start with one that is very interesting to me: MDMA's metabol

Comment · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 21 pts

Originally posed in /r/Drugs but was told I might get a better response here. What does everyone think? See any holes?

Comment · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 13 pts

Ohh man, my theory is very complex, and involves many different systems and mechanisms. There is no one place that explains it in full. I have spent thousands of hours researching and testing (on myself) my postulations.

Comment · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 7 pts

Yes sir, it's much more complicated than my post alluded to. I did not want to completely lose everyone, since I originally posted in /r/Drugs. I have a feeling that some people are already going to just close the post d

Comment · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 5 pts

Thanks! Will do.

Comment · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 4 pts

Haha, thanks! I'll try to get to it soon.

Comment · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 6 pts

Ohh no, there is no way you could sustain a roll for 4 days. Just because it tested positive for MDMA with the marquis test, does not mean that there was not something else in it. Even so, 4 days is nuts. Not sure what t

Comment · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 1 pts

That's strange! Especially since you all took the same thing. What was the dosage? Did she re-dose? Did she eat a lot of dark chocolate (it's an MAOI)? Has she taken MDMA before without issues? I can't rule out the possi

Comment · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 2 pts

Alpha lipoic acid is your best defense. You can also take E, C, EGCG, grape seed extract, etc.

Comment · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 4 pts

I wrote to this in another post the other day. Given the limited studies and information on 6-APB, I would say that it's less neurotoxic than MDMA to 5-HT neurons. This is because it cannot be N-demethylated to MDA, so i

Comment · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 3 pts

No, that is why we take 5-HTP. Trytophan hydroxylase is what adds the hydroxyl group to tryptophan, creating 5-hydroxytryptophan(5-HTP). 5-HTP skips that whole step, which is why it's beneficial the week after MDMA use.

Comment · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 2 pts

That's a very complex answer. It depends on the dosage you took, and the route of administration. There is going to be more first-pass metabolism if you take it orally. Intranasal and rectal will have less. It also depen

Comment · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 3 pts

There is great debate as to why this works. The main theory is that the SSRI will bind to your SERT and prevent oxidative substances from being re-uptakes into your serotonin neurons. I do believe this to be the case, bu

Comment · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 6 pts

There is no crash. NONE! If you supplement the way I do, all you have is a two week long afterglow. Preventing the creation of the toxic metabolites, in combination with taking strong antioxidants for anything that does

Comment · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 2 pts

I run my own telecommunications business. My professional background has nothing to do with neurochemistry. My findings are posted here because they will help people. Someone with the ability to run pharmacological trial

Comment · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 8 pts

Haha, I will do a big supplementation post soon. Here is a general idea. Take fully chelated magnesium glycinate before and during. Doctor's Best brand is a good one. Take a good alpha lipoic acid supplement before, an

Comment · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 2 pts

No sir. To be perfectly honest, I dropped out. I did get a complete scholarship to University. I studied economics. After two years there, I decided that it was holding me back. I learn much faster and better on my own.

Comment · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 3 pts

Ohh, but to your question about THC, yes it helps. If you smoke during your roll, it actually prevents neurotoxicity by keeping your body temperature lower. Win win!

Comment · Thu, November 22, 2012 · 2 pts

Telecommunications

Comment · Fri, November 23, 2012 · 1 pts

Yes, MDA is much more neurotoxic to 5-HT neurons. >MDMA (5 mg kg-1, i.p.) was without effect on brain 5-HT content. A single dose of MDA (5 mg kg-1, i.p.) produced a major (approximately 40%) loss of 5-HT content of cor

Comment · Fri, November 23, 2012 · 1 pts

That's a low dose. Was that her first time taking MDMA?

Comment · Fri, November 23, 2012 · 2 pts

What do you mean O-demethylation? 6-APB has a benzofuran ring instead of a methylenedioxy ring. I'm not as familiar with organic chemistry as I would like. Can you explain how O-demethylation would lead to a double carbo

Comment · Fri, November 23, 2012 · 2 pts

Ohh ok, so you are postulating that CYP2D6 enzyme could break the oxygen carbon bond. I am not knowledgeable enough in that respect to know. It would be interesting to see some studies conducted on 6-APB. However, once t

Comment · Sat, November 24, 2012 · 1 pts

Vitamin C redox cycling will not be an issue unless you are taking super high doses. Yes, melatonin helps a lot. I take 5-10mg before bed. It's a great antioxidant.

Comment · Sat, November 24, 2012 · 1 pts

Why not? 9 times out of 10, I'm taking MDMA at a club. I never have had any issues at all. Once a friend of mine did at club Escape in Amsterdam. However, I have never had an issue personally. I'm usually at clubs in Las

Comment · Sat, November 24, 2012 · 2 pts

My whole point was that MDA WAS the cause of MDMA neurotoxicity. If you are taking MDA, there is no way to prevent the toxic metabolites. Your best bet is to load up on antioxidants, and smoke some THC. If you are one o

Comment · Sat, November 24, 2012 · 2 pts

It is, it's just there is really no way to completely stop the O-demthylation or ring-hydroxylation completely. MDA is significantly more neurotoxicthan MDMA because of this. Antioxidants can help a lot though.

Comment · Sat, November 24, 2012 · 2 pts

That's shitty! In the US they don't care. I've never been patted down. People would get offended here if they did, and just not go to that club. I always bring a lot off supplements in, other drugs too. Nobody cares, hah

Comment · Sat, November 24, 2012 · 2 pts

After I wrote this post, a gracious Redditor with full access got me all the studies in full, so that I could go through them. I had just been reading the abstracts, and those papers I could find for free online before.

Comment · Sat, November 24, 2012 · 1 pts

You mean like festivals? I will confess that I have not been to one in the US yet. I've been to some in Europe. Those I just have a female that is with me put a care package in her bra. Still though, for vitamin suppleme

Comment · Sat, November 24, 2012 · 1 pts

Yes, keep you dosages as low as you can. Vitamin C, Alpha lipoic acid, EGCG, and magnesium glycinate will help A LOT. Make sure you take those.

Comment · Sat, November 24, 2012 · 1 pts

Loose tablets usually. I keep the different ones in different pockets. Most of the time I only bring in magnesium glycinate tablets, Alpha lipoic acid capsules, Emercen-C packets, and maybe an EGCG capsule. Usually if y

Comment · Sat, November 24, 2012 · 1 pts

Haha, ok. Here is a list: _____________________________________________ **-Fully chelated magnesium glycinate.** Doctor's Best brand is good. Most brands are shit. (Dose before and during) **-Alpha lipoic acid.** You

Comment · Sat, November 24, 2012 · 1 pts

Yeah, but that would only be necessary in the instance that the people frisking you were giving you issues. If you tell them, "Fine, bring the police over here so I can discuss it with them," then they will probably real

Comment · Sat, November 24, 2012 · 1 pts

Coenzyme q10 would be good as well, especially for ATP transport to help pump excess Ca out of your neurons. This will help with excitotoxicity. ALA will still be needed though. ALC? Are you talking about Acetyl-L-Carni

Comment · Sun, November 25, 2012 · 1 pts

Thanks! My professional career has absolutely nothing to do with neurochemisty. I actually started my own telecommunications company. In the future I may look into organic chemistry, though. As far as your other concern

Comment · Wed, November 28, 2012 · 1 pts

Ohh man, 2-4 days of consistent use?!? Ain't nobody got time for that! Get some other drugs that work on different systems. Psychedelics, dissociatives, etc. Don't fuck your serotonin systems each day. It's not worth it.

Comment · Wed, November 28, 2012 · 1 pts

The problem is, that increases the risk of neurotoxocity greatly. Studies have shown that 200mg in one dose produces lower toxicity than 200mg spread over 4 doses. This is to do with the metabolism of MDMA by CYP2D6. Upo

Comment · Wed, November 28, 2012 · 1 pts

Yes, it's longer. Slowing the metabolism down will allow for higher serum levels for longer. If I take 150mg, then 50mg re-dose 1 hour later, it usually lasts about 5-6 hours.