Comment · Sat, November 10, 2012
Research Suggests no Neurotoxicity in MDMA
Original post in this thread
PuffyCheek · 194 points
In partial response to what I've been reading in the bestof'd thread here at /drugs, I think it would be good to start a discussion about the neurotoxicity in MDMA.
I feel as if the harmful effects discussed in the thread were overblown. According to a research done by the Harvard Medical School last year in 2011, users who were asked to use MDMA under a controlled setting over a certain period of time showed no signs of cognitive impairment nor decreased mental ability.
So the question remains, why do we have so much evidence from past research studies that show otherwise? The researchers at Harvard Medical School responded by saying that past research studies lacked a proper control environment. What that means is that past research studies did not control their test group to make sure they didn't engage in unhealthy activities after ingesting MDMA (i.e. going to a rave and dancing for 8 hours straight).
No research since 2011 has proved Harvard Medical School's conclusion wrong, that MDMA is actually harmful to your brain. No other research studies that I could personally find had settings as controlled as the one conducted by HMS.
That being said, research was done…
What they were answering
myreaderaccount · 5 points
Your body wouldn't stop producing from a large dose, but from extended dosing over time. Also, in healthy populations when used for inducing sleep, the lower dosage is more effective (no one knows why).
Your OP is suggesting it for its antioxidant properties, which is different. Melatonin is definitely one of the most potent antioxidants we know of. However, I'm not sure taking a large dose would be helpful, necessarily. For example, popular wisdom has that taking large amounts of Vitamin C is good for you because it's an antioxidant. In reality, C in large amounts causes redox cycling, essentially the same reaction initiated and reversed a number of times before equilibrium, and in the end will produce more free radicals than were being produced originally. Additionally, melatonin is a potent hormone, and not all of the effects are known. One known effect is that it is pro-estrogenic.
Last thing: OP may be on to something with the MAO-B reference. When it degrades dopamine (and to a lesser degree, lots of other catecholamines), it produces free radicals like hydroxyl. Excessive amounts to break down would likely lead to excessive free radical release, causing damage. Though this is not the nation reason for MDMA toxicity, it's likely a contributor.
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb
Vitamin C redox cycling should not be an issue unless you are going with insane doses. Also, taking dehyrascorbic acid instead of absorbic acid can help. Ester-C contains it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15668957
This is also why one should not just simply take one source of antioxidants. Grape seed extract, alpha lipoic acid, quercetin, etc can provide synergy to scavenge the created ROS.
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A 5-10mg dose of melatonin before bed is safe and extremely effective. I am not suggesting that be a normal course of action, but merely the night of taking MDMA. Normal daily dosages should be around .5mg. However, high doses have been shown to be exptremely effective with reactive oxygen species.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17014688
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MAO-B is definitely involved, we just are not sure exactly which substances being oxidized are causing the damage. One theory is that it was a hepatic metabolite of MDMA. However, I read the abstract of a study that tested MDMA and it's known metabolites individually for oxidative stress. The metabolites alone were not able to produce the same damage that MDMA did. So it has to be a combination of things, which I do believe involve dopamine and MAO-B.