Comment · Mon, September 27, 2021 · ND Owner
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Original post in this thread
NDSocialMedia · 85 points
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What they were answering
srubek · 10 points
Yessir, I sure will — just wait for me to send a PM, once I have a good quantity to send.
You da best.
You are my hero. This is why I love you.
Because you listen to everything, not just what pertains to your immediate product.
I.e. you hear my apprehension and hesitancy when it comes to the use of my specific 70% kavalactone extract powder (that has no raw testing data), and you know that’s not normal for me, especially since such extract is one I utilize nightly, one with no raw testing data whatsoever (not to be conflated with DrinkRoot, which is a bit pricier by comparison, and is heavily scrutinized and tested), and you know how much I want (nay — how much I need) to see a test or COA on it, to feel secure in further usage — so I can be sure it is pure kava kava (without any toxic parts, or impurities, including but not limited to heavy metals, pesticides, residual extraction / solvent material, etc), so I can rest assured if I decide to continue taking it in the long term.
(And meanwhile, you get an idea of what works best for a long term kava kava “enthusiast,” who uses it every day, and has gone through the many formulas, preparations, products, vendors, etc., lending a perfect sort of mutualism — and if you [and ND crew] can formulate a product that matches the effects of my extract, I’ll surely switch to ND for my source!)
Ahem
**Dear Reddit’s…
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · ND Owner
So after talking to /u/Pretty-Chill, I think there are multiple things at play. To start, you are measuring efficacy much differently than we are. Not once in our testing did we even think about sleep inducing properties. To be honest, that's not really an effect I have ever associated with kava. I have only ever used it for stress reduction and mood boosting during the day/evening. Sleep induction isn't traditionally what people use kava for. Ours was meant as a traditional Fijian noble kava, which doesn't really have sedative properties. It's more a stress-relieving social lubricant with some pain killing effects. That was our measure of success in this specific extract. That doesn't mean we couldn't try to make another extract that is more suited to sedative and sleep-inducing properties, though.
After discussing with /u/Pretty-Chill we think there are three possibilities to the kava you are using. One, it's a different chemotype that expresses more dihydromethysticin. That seems to be sedating at higher amounts. That's the second least concentrated kavalactone in our extract, which would explain why you didn't like it. If you are used to high amounts of dihydromethysticin, and ours has low amounts, that makes sense why you find it weak. I am not sure which noble strains would express high amounts of dihydromethysticin, but we can do some research.
Option two is that you are using a non-noble strain like the Isa type from Papua New Guinea. That is higher in dihydromethysticin, which would make it sedating. However, it is not a noble strain. That's not saying it will have the liver damaging effects that were seen in some studies, but we stuck to noble kava for our product because of that.
Option 3 is that you are taking a kava extract spiked with etizolam. Now I know that would suck, but here is one of the reasons we think that. For one, a 70% kavalactone extract made with supercritical CO2 comes out as an oil, not a powder. This is why you see mostly powders topping out at 30%. They take the 70% oil/resin extract and spray dry it with maltodextrin to make it into a powder. This works to make a powder, but the maltodextrin takes up weight. You can't really have a stable powder form of a 70% kavalactone extract, unless there is some special extraction method we don't know about. So if it's not possible to get 70% kavalactones in a stable powder form, and you already know they don't provide testing results, and you are still getting strong effects, what could it be? Well etizolam is cheap, active at really low amounts, and has similar muscle relaxing properties as kava can have. This would be an ideal thing to spike some kava with if you wanted it to feel really strong. It would be shitty, but I could see some people doing it. Now that is worst case scenario here. We are going to test your stuff to see for sure.
It could very well just be a non-noble chemotype expressing tons of dihydromethysticin, which is what you are looking for in a kava. That's just not the purpose of our kava. Fijian kavas don't have a lot of dihydromethysticin in them. They are the 463251 chemotype. You are probably looking for a chemotype that starts with 5. Obviously best case scenario is that you do have a 70% kavalactone extract that is not adulterated, and it is just from a variety like Isa or Mahakea that expresses a lot of dihydromethysticin. We are going to do some testing on what you send us, along with testing of a few other non-noble kavas out there to see what we can find. I think this is a good example of why one-size-fits-all is impossible for some products. It's similar to ashwagandha in that way. The amounts and ratios of the individual withanolides matter, just like the amounts and ratios of the specific kavalactones. I think /u/Pretty-Chill is going to chime in with some of his own expanded points, too.