Comment · Tue, January 26, 2021 · ND Owner
Herbal GABAergics and dependency
Original post in this thread
bejaq · 20 points
It seems that it's generally assumed that herbal supplements that work on GABA like gotu kola, skullcap, lemon balm, magnolia are not prone to causing dependency and withdrawal.
However there have been (relatively rare) claims to the contrary.
To be honest I am a bit concerned with the lack of information on this subject, and my intuition is that in the absence of contrary evidence, it should be assumed that substances that have similarities in receptor-action to benzodiazepines, alcohol, phenibut (if only by working on gaba) might be prone to inducing dependency and withdrawal.
Personally I like the feeling of benzos a lot and if there is safe alternative I certainly would like to take it more than occasionally.
It would be awesome to have a substance that helps the GABA system regulate itself better, and the complex pharmacology of herbs might be better suited to that?
But I feel it might be a little bit naive to believe that unless there is actual evidence for that.
It should be noted that when it comes to benzos and opiates, it took a long time and many people using them for the understanding of their true addictive potential to become clear, so that also seems good t…
What they were answering
Friedrich_Ux · 1 points
Found this interesting case study but I think on the whole you are correct, something stronger like Skullcap or Phenibut will certainly have withdrawals with chronic use but something like Magnolia Bark or Ecklonia Cava will have withdrawals that simply don't compare or maybe even register.
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · ND Owner
A 30-year-old married male, a university graduate, applied to the emergency department with complaints of restlessness, tremor, distractibility, and sweating that had lasted approximately 24 hours. His medical history revealed that he was in the stressful period and had been suffering from anxiety symptoms for three months. He had purchased melissa tea (including Melissa officinalis) from an herbalist two months prior in order to help treat his anxiety symptoms. He drank it regularly at night without combining it with another plant-based tea. He stated that he felt relief from anxiety after drinking the tea and felt restless and irritable when he did not consume the tea. Further, over the course of two months, the amount of tea he consumed increased from one cup per day to four cups per day. His symptoms began 24 hours before being admitted to the emergency department, and he did not drink any tea for the two days prior. On psychiatric examination, he exhibited open conscious, normal orientation, anxious mood, internal restlessness, irritability, and reported decreased sleep, appetite, and concentration. He also experienced an increasingly strong craving for melissa tea. The patient had no history of major medical or mental illness and had no documented alcohol or drug use. His family history was unremarkable. In his physical and neurological examination there weren’t any pathological findings except a postural tremor in both of the patient’s hands. His heart rate was 95bpm, his blood pressure 120/80 mm/Hg, and his ECG was unremarkable. Multiple tests of complete blood counts, serum electrolytes, hepatic and renal function, thyroid hormone, and urine were all normal. Cranial MRG and EEG were within normal limits.
Withdrawal symptoms took place after stopping consumption of Melissa officinalis. According to the Naranjo Causality Scale (8) (the score was 6) the adverse effects were likely due to Melissa officinalis withdrawal. The patient was diagnosed as a case of “other substance withdrawal (Melissa officinalis-related)”. The patient was followed up daily as an outpatient. Clonazepam was started (2 mg/day) and continued for one week. His symptoms improved completely at the end a10-day period. He maintained regular follow-up care for six months and exhibited no symptoms of withdrawal in control examinations.
LOL, how ever did he manage with such strong withdrawals?!? ECG was normal. BP was slightly high. MRG and EEG were normal. Dude admitted himself to the ER for some anxious mood and irritability! Hahahaha. Sounds like a Monday to me. This is what I am saying about reports of "withdrawals and dependence." Show that report to someone who actually went through benzo withdrawals and see what they say. Hell, they fucking gave him benzos for it!!! Like dude, just taper down off the fucking lemon balm tea you were drinking, dummy... Getting some Kolonipin because you drank too much lemon balm tea for too long, then had some anxiousness? Just asinine. Then they wrote a case study on it?!? What world do these people live in?