Comment · Wed, September 16, 2020 · ND Owner
Sleep support causing next morning depressed mood, pessimistic feelings questions....
Original post in this thread
Bigpoppapenguin123 · 13 points
This is a two part question. Any feedback is appreciated!
First off I love Nootropics Depot and all that you guys bring! Outstanding service! I had been experimenting with the Sleep Support without the zinc for a few weeks now. Admittedly, I am one of the reviewers on the website that left a review complaining about the Sleep Support causing some depressive feelings. A ND admin responded to my review and another’s regarding the same issue. They said that it’s possibly the bacopa in the stack that’s causing a increased production of serotonin, resulting in less dopamine which can be mitigated by taking l-tyrosine or NALT in the morning.
I took some NALT with P5P the mornings after, but I really didn’t notice an improvement. I just picked up some regular L-tyrosine, so I’ll try larger doses of this with P5P.
Question 1: Now, I was actually wondering if the negative effects I’m getting is NOT from the serotonin and dopamine balance being thrown off, but rather from and increase of ACETYLCHOLINE?? I know lemon balm, uridine, and bacopa have an influence on acetylcholine, but I’m not so sure about magnolia, the oleamide, or Shilajit. Do these last three increase acetylcholine to s…
What they were answering
Direct reply to the original post — see the thread post above.
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · ND Owner
I took some NALT with P5P the mornings after, but I really didn’t notice an improvement. I just picked up some regular L-tyrosine, so I’ll try larger doses of this with P5P.
Some people get much better effects from L-tyrosine than NALT. I have not figured out why yet, but it is definitely a thing. I would be curious to see if normal L-tyrosine does the trick for you.
Question 1: Now, I was actually wondering if the negative effects I’m getting is NOT from the serotonin and dopamine balance being thrown off, but rather from and increase of ACETYLCHOLINE?? I know lemon balm, uridine, and bacopa have an influence on acetylcholine, but I’m not so sure about magnolia, the oleamide, or Shilajit. Do these last three increase acetylcholine to some extent? This is what I’ve been thinking about lately. That perhaps I’m taking too many cholinergic compounds.
The 4-O-methylhonokiol in magnolia bark can inhibit acetylcholine stearase.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2690856/
It does appear that chronic dosing of oleamide can affect ACh as well, through activation of cholineacetyltransferase activity. This is not seen in acute doses, though. It's a build-up effect.
https://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.bbr.2007.05.006
Shilajit also has some effects on the cholinergic system, but it is complex.
https://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/s0197-0186%2896%2900025-3
So you could very well be just getting too much ACh. You might be sensitive to changes in that regard.
Question 2: I noticed that the majority of herbs/adaptogens inhibit acetylcholinesterase to some extent. A lot of nootropics I have and experiment with are acetylcholinesterase inhibitors. Do you offer or can you recommend any nootropics that are not cholinergic? I have fasoracetam and aniracetam already, so I’m not really interested in trying other racetams.
NMN doesn't. It normalizes it in older subjects, but doesn't affect it in younger ones. I don't think tongkat ali affects ACh. The thing with nootropics is that many at least modulate the cholinergic system, as that is a primary target for cognitive enhancement. So it's hard to find things that have zero effect on that system.