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Comment · Tue, July 7, 2020 · ND Owner

Phenibut Powder

Original post in this thread

naathyn · 12 points

I’ve noticed over the months (the 11/22/19 batch to the current 05/13/20 batch) the consistency of the Phenibut has changed from a coarse like powder to a powder that’s very fluffy almost to the consistency of l-theanine or aniracetam.

Quality is definitely there. What causes the consistency to change as far as the chemistry goes? Also, do you have the exact assay of the purity? The lab says >98%. I was just wondering if there was an exact assay.

Thank you and it is very good!

What they were answering

Direct reply to the original post — see the thread post above.

u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · ND Owner

It's just the milling size. Any crystalline powder can be ground down to a finer milling size. Think of the difference between granular sugar and powdered sugar. They are the exact same chemically. They might even be the same batch of sugar. However, you can grind down the granular crystals into smaller particles with a mill. That's called the milling size. Usually you go by mesh, but if you get small enough you go by microns. A 200 mesh is actually 74 micron particles.

So why would one have a large or smaller milling size? Well for water-soluble things it doesn't make much of a difference. That's because they will immediately go into solution in the stomach after swallowing. Now it gets more complex than that, because sometimes things are soluble in water at a neutral pH, but not at a low pH like in the stomach. So then particle size can come into play. Smaller particle sizes means more surface area for each particle to come into contact with either a solvent that can dissolve it, or the mucuos membranes in the GI tract to absorb. Now for things that are not water soluble, particle size matters more. This is because they won't form solutions in the stomach. So you want as small and as many particles as you can, to increase the likelihood they will come into contact with the walls of your stomach or intestines. So a finer mesh can be a good thing for things that are not very water soluble, or are not very soluble in low pH environments.

Phenibut HCL is very water soluble, though. So particle size does not really affect it much. Large crystals or fine powder is going to act almost exactly the same. So controlling for particle size is not something we do for phenibut, because the supply chain is totally fucked right now from COVID-19. If they mill it to 60 mesh or 200 mesh, we are going to accept it either way. If we tried to only accept let's say 80 mesh batches, we would run out of stock on it. So we monitor the particle size of every batch of phenibut, but we don't have a hard specification for that particular parameter, which is why it can vary.

Now something like palmitoylethanolamide we absolutely do control particle size for. That one we always do micronized or ultramicronized. Micronized particles are anything from 10 microns to 100 microns. However, our spec for micronized is actually 50 microns or less. So the PEA particles have to be 50 microns or less for us to use them. Sometimes we have some they are ultramicronized, or 5 microns or less. Those a very very small particles. We currently can't measure that low, but we are about to buy a $9,000 machine that can measure down to the ultramicronized level for QC analysis. You can also see we control it for creatine, as we sell a 200 mesh. 200 mesh is 74 micron particles. This is also for bioavailability purposes, due to creatine monohydrate's solubility issues. If you had creatine HCL, then you would not need to worry about particle size as much, since that is water soluble. Make sense?

If you give me your lot number on your jar, I can pull the COA for purity of that lot.

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