Comment · Wed, January 29, 2020 · Natrium Health & Nootropics Depot
Frustrated by the lack of quality lion's mane
Original post in this thread
eclecticlove1 · 11 points
I've only had high quality lions mane a few times, but I've had it enough that I know when it's the real deal. When its good, you feel the effects very clearly from the first dose, not "after a few weeks". The brand that I relied on recently started making a lower quality product.
The worst is when I try a new brand, and it turns out to just be repackaged Nammex crap.
Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Is there a brand that works well as an acute nootropic, that is also affordable?
What they were answering
Shneven37 · 3 points
Do you have anything to say about Stamet's claims that the mycelium is much more beneficial for neurogenesis? You only use the fruiting bodies. I've given your company a lot of my hard earned money and I would really appreciate hearing why you disagree with him. If you could even give me a link to a study that would mean a lot to me. I am about to start growing my own Lions mane and making tinctures with both mycelium and fruiting bodies if I don't feel resolution soon. I'd like to give you my business.
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · Natrium Health & Nootropics Depot
I would say: show me the scientific data to back that up! He can't and won't. That's telling. ALL the human clinical data on lion's mane to this point has used fruiting bodies. ALL OF IT. Not a single human study with lion's mane mycelium, and certainly not one with mycelium on grain. Follow the clinical data. If you follow the human clinical data, it points towards fruiting body.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ptr.2634
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/biomedres/31/4/31_4_231/_article/-char/ja/
Those are placebo controlled human clinical trials. That's the gold standard for science. We can look at rat and in-vitro studies and see some cool things, but that should not invalidate human clinical research. That research used whole lion's mane fruiting body powder, not even an extract.
Again, that's not to say there are not cool things in lion's mane mycelium. There ARE some really cool things. However, the science needs to catch up. There are currently no reference standards for erinacines and hericenones, and currently no validated analytical methods to measure them. So that needs to happen first. You can't make a good product standardized to something you can't accurately measure. You just can't. I could release a lion's mane mycelium extract next week if I wanted to. I could have released one YEARS ago. However, I want to be sure what I am selling has scientific data behind it, and that I personally can stand behind it. I am no longer concerned about being first to sell something. I want to be sure that people trust that when I release a product, and I put my name and the name of my companies behind it, that that means something. That shit doesn't mean anything anymore. Everyone just bullshits everything. However, when I put my support behind a product, and I put my name behind it, I want people to know that really means something more. When I release a lion's mane mycelium product, and I certainly will, you will know that's significant. Otherwise I would have just been selling shit to people for years based on BS and hope. And you can be damn sure that when I do release this product, I will have hard scientific data to prove it. I know where these suppliers everyone is hyping up are getting their shit... I could tell you the exact Chinese supplier it is right now. We yelled at that supplier for misleading people on the erinacine thing. They KNOW their numbers are bullshit! We told them! They don't care. People want to believe there are high erinacines there. That sells. Until that is PROVEN with science, it's just speculative BS.
I don't want to discourage you from doing your own lion's mane mycelium tinctures. I am not saying there is not potential there. I am just saying I won't put my name behind something till I am sure I have scientifically proven it's true.