Comment · Sun, December 8, 2013
MDMA harm reduction - order of supplements
Original post in this thread
zivilkannibale · 19 points
Hi all,
after researching about MDMA harm reduction, with the main source being /u/MisterYouAreSoDumb 's thread (http://www.reddit.com/r/DrugNerds/comments/15m9sf/mdma_supplementation/), I managed to get hold of the essential supplements. This is certainly no easy endeavor if you don't happen to live in the US. Had to import half of these supplements through customs. Such a hassle.
I have
* 2 litres of grapefruit juice
* Vitamin C capsules, with 750mg VitC and 100mg grape seed extract
* Magnesium glycinate pills, with 200mg elemental Mg
* Na-R-ALA capsules, with 100mg R-ALA
and for the morning after
* 5HTP pills with 100mg 5HTP (time release)
Now I was wondering about the order of supplementation. To keep it simple, I was planning on putting one of each into three baggies, and then pull out a baggie a time in the middle of the club and swallow all the pills at once. I dont want to worry more about taking my supps at the right moment than actually partying.
So the schedule is
* 6 hours before: Mg
* 1 hour before: VitC, Mg, Na-R-ALA
* take MDMA
* 2 hours in, another VitC, Mg, Na-R-ALa
* 3 hours later, the last baggie
**Do these supplements have any synergy or contraindicant…
What they were answering
Claviceps · 2 points
2 litres of grapefruit juice
You should be aware that grapefruit juice can have interactions with other drugs as it inhibits enzymes that are involved with the metabolism of a lot of drugs. Before ingesting lots of grapefruit juice you should do some research into any medication you're taking or any other drug(s) you plan on taking within a period of 48 to 72 hours. I've posted more information in here: Grapefruit seed extract for MDMA pre-load (self.DrugNerds)
I think people should also understand that to my knowledge none of these harm reduction supplements have actually been tested in human clinical trials and most are based on inferences. It's comforting for humans to think we can reduce harm so we can continue using a drug for example and think we're not doing much harm or at least are "balancing" it out. I'm not saying that none of these supplements work, I'm stating that science to my knowledge is still out on the verdict. It also leaves a possibility that these supplements could induce harm.
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb
There is a lot of science behind my supplementation. It's not just inferences. I do not have the money to fund double blind human trials with a schedule 1 substance, nor do I have the DEA licensing to do it legally. There are multiple rat and primate studies backing up my theory, though. Most of the substances that are in my guide have all been proven to reduce neurotoxicicity in one way or another.
The grapefruit juice had not been tested in relation to MDMA. However, the mechanisms behind it are proven. Even so, the grapefruit juice mostly inhibits CYP3A4 in your GI tract. There is not much hepatic inhibition from it. That is sort of by design, as I do not want people potentiating MDMA too much. I have tried a much stronger CYP3A4 inhibitor on myself (piperine). Unfortunately my experiment was altered by the SAMe I had taken the morning of. So more testing will have to be done to see how piperine affects the subjective experience of the roll.
It's easy to say the science is out on the subject, or to make general statements that it could also lead to harm. It's much harder to do the thousands of hours of research to come up with a scientifically sound theory. If you think my supplementation guide has holes, I am more than willing to explore those to figure things out. However, I do not think blanket skepticism about the entire concept of harm reduction is beneficial to advancing our knowledge on the subject.