Comment · Tue, November 13, 2012 · Ceretropic
I am creating a nootropics mind map. Does anyone want to give me constructive criticism or contribute?
Original post in this thread
Rage_Boner · 104 points
Here is a screenshot. http://i.imgur.com/EfFy2.png
It's obviously far from finished, but here is what I've got after about an hour of working on it last night. I'm using this format because this is how I learn most effectively. I apologize if this is not "official" enough with citations, etc. It's a work in progress. If anyone wants to contribute, I've selected Xmind as the format, and I could host it in a shared dropbox folder, unless you have better ideas.
EDIT 1: Thanks for the positive. Let's make this a collaborative effort. Instead of hosting and getting multiple random versions, I think it would be best if we all share a folder. That way we can track version changes and roll back if needed, e.g. someone deletes everything then saves. Please PM me your email address (the one linked to your dropbox) and I will invite you to my dropbox folder...unless someone can suggest a better way to host this for collaboration.
UPDATE: I've added a little more data to the TLDR noot map. I am going to host it here for download.. New Screenshot http://i.imgur.com/CGdfg.png Here is where you can download the Xmind file. https://www.dropbox.com/s/bkd1o0kvzmmpg5u/Cognitive%20Enhanc…
What they were answering
Rage_Boner · 8 points
This is exactly why I need your help! It is nowhere near final product. This is where I saw something about oxidative stress regarding piracetam. http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/50360-oxidative-stress-piracetam-and-vinpocetine/
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · Ceretropic
That post has very little discussion on it. In fact, they linked the exact same study I did. It was a combination study of piracetam and vinpocetine.
MDA decreased in striatum and cortex by the lower doses of vinpocetine or piracetam
MDA in this instance means malondialdehyde. It's a marker for oxidative stress. At doses of 150mg/kg of piracetam, oxidative stress was LOWERED. Now that's rat doses, so (150*6)/37= 24.3mg/kg. So for me that would be a dose of 1.9 grams. I personally take 1.6 gram doses (yay me!).
(MDA) increased in cortex and hippocampus and in cortex, hypothalamus and striatum by the higher dose of vinpocetine or piracetam, respectively along with decreased TAC.
TAC in this case stands for total antioxidant capacity. So at doses of 300mg/kg, markers for oxidative stress were raised, and antioxidant capacity was lowered. This would be 48.6mg/kg in humans, or for me 3.9 grams. So it would seem that high doses of piracetam did cause oxidative stress. However...
GSH increased by the higher dose of piracetam and by vinpocetine which also decreased serum nitric oxide.
GSH in this case stands for glutathione, which is a tripeptide antioxidant. This means that the higher doses also led to the creation of more antioxidants and a reduction in nitric oxide.
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So they observed lowering of markers for oxidative stress in the lower (in my opinion, reasonable) doses. They also measured higher markers for oxidative stress in high (In my opinion, too high) doses. However, to go along with the increased markers for oxidative stress in the high doses, they also measured increases in an important antioxidant glutathione, as well as a lowering of nitric oxide. So they have a conflicting result that is intriguing.
But here's the kicker:
We studied the role of oxidative stress and the effect of vinpocetine (1.5, 3 or 6 mg/kg) and piracetam (150 or 300 mg/kg) in acute demyelination of the rat brain following intracerebral injection of ethidium bromide.
They injected ethidium bromide into the brain, a substance that causes oxidative stress, then they measured the results from piracetam and vinpocetine! This test proved that high doses of piracetam and vinpocetine, when administered with ethidium bromide, can show higher markers for oxidative stress. However, it showed that lower doses protected against said oxidative stress. So the results are dosage-dependent, and somewhat conflicting. It also does not show that piracetam causes oxidative stress on it's own. I would be interested in looking into this more though.