Skip to content

Comment · Fri, January 26, 2024 · ND Owner

Dihydroberberine is the solution to glucose metabolism?

Original post in this thread

anubis_1021 · 6 points

This is being hailed as the solution to the poor bioavailability of berberine hcl. When will nootropics depot offer this and for the competitors on the market, are they lying of their purity and dosages for dihydroberberine?

Bonus question: Since berberine may inhibit muscle growth due to mtor signalling then is it advisable to have 3-4x servings a week on high days(high carb days), a fella who has high end of fasting glucose may benefit more from berberine though and it may outweigh the possible negative of motor signalling(also is the effect to muscle building really that large or is it negligible?)

What they were answering

allreadytatitu · 3 points

Would love for you to elaborate your thoughts on those 2 forms being almost 2 different categories, since most comparison articles you find online praise DHB and solely focus on bioavailability.

u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · ND Owner

Every compound out there has two different parts: it's pharmacodynamics and its pharmacokintetics. Pharmacodynamics is essentially how it works in the body. Think of this as the mechanism the compound uses to cause effects to the body. Pharmacokinetics is essentially how it move around the body. Think of this as how it gets absorbed, transported, metabolized, and then excreted. Most people like to simplify it all down. However, how a compound works in the body, and where it works in the body, both really matter to the effects. Sometimes it doesn't even need to technically enter the body to work, as many things just affect the GI tract itself, but never get into systemic circulation. Berberine is one of those compounds that has both central, peripheral effects, and external GI effects. This means that the pharmacokinetics of the berberine form matter a lot, as taking normal berberine HCL is going to mostly affect the GI tract, whereas taking a different form like dihydroberberine will have more systemic and central effects. Normal berberine HCL has a lot of its effects from modulating the microbiome in the small intestine.

Gut microbiome-related effects of berberine and probiotics on type 2 diabetes \(the PREMOTE study\)

The mechanism of berberine alleviating metabolic disorder based on gut microbiome

Effects of berberine and metformin on intestinal inflammation and gut microbiome composition in db/db mice

These effects are mostly due to berberine acting directly in the small intestine. If you use a form that more rapidly enters the bloodstream, then you will alter the effects in the small intestine, and increase the effects in the other parts of the body. With berberine, you can do that in a number of ways. We offer berberine HCL with silymarin, as that has shown to improve bioavailability and have complimentary effects with one another.

Metabolic effect of berberine–silymarin association: A meta-analysis of randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trials

A Descriptive Review of the Action Mechanisms of Berberine, Quercetin and Silymarin on Insulin Resistance/Hyperinsulinemia and Cardiovascular Prevention

Efficacy of Nutraceutical Combination of Monacolin K, Berberine, and Silymarin on Lipid Profile and PCSK9 Plasma Level in a Cohort of Hypercholesterolemic Patients

Effects of a Combination of Berberis aristata, Silybum marianum and Monacolin on Lipid Profile in Subjects at Low Cardiovascular Risk; A Double-Blind, Randomized, Placebo-Controlled Trial

The improvement in berberine bioavailability by silymarin is mostly due to its P-glycoprotein inhibiting properties. Then it also goes on to have direct complimentary effects in the body. The main issue with silymarin is that most milk thistle extracts out there have silychristin in them, which adversely affects thyroid function.

Silychristin, a Flavonolignan Derived From the Milk Thistle, Is a Potent Inhibitor of the Thyroid Hormone Transporter MCT8

This was actually brought to our attention by a Redditor on our sub, so we decided to develop a low silychristin milk thistle, which we have moved to now in our berberine/silymarin product. This strategy help improve the bioavailability of berberine, and enhance its effects, but fundamentally keep the molecular structure of berberine the same.

https://nootropicsdepot.com/berberine-hcl-silymarin-tablets/

Then we also offer berberine phytosome. This uses a strategy of creating a phospholipid complex of berberine with pea protein, sunflower lecithin, and grapeseed extract. This also helps improve the pharmacokinetics of berberine without fundamentally changing the chemical structure of berberine itself. It has also been studied to do that in humans.

Graph

Berberine phospholipid exerts a positive effect on the glycemic profile of overweight subjects with impaired fasting blood glucose (IFG): a randomized double-blind placebo-controlled clinical trial

This change not only increases bioavailability, but also extends the effects over a longer period. It's like a controlled release formulation.

https://nootropicsdepot.com/berberine-phytosome-capsules-550mg/

So these are the two solutions to berberine bioavailability we have gone with so far, as they fundamentally don't change the chemical structure of berberine. It's still berberine entering the body and working like it normally does. What dihydroberberine does to improve bioavailability is to actually chemically alter the molecule, making a completely different chemical structure. This strategy works because making that change alters the solubility profile of the molecule, but also prevents it from binding to the normal enzymes that break berberine down and lower bioavailability. This is why I consider it a different thing. It's very similar to our Curowhite product. That takes the curcuminoids in curcumin, and hydrogenates them. This removes the conjugated pi system, which is why it removes the orange color. However, it also improves bioavailability for the same reason dihydroberberine alters it. The chemical structure is fundamentally different, so it completely changes the pharmacokinetics, but also some of the pharmacodynamics. I am not opposed to that, as I think making changes like that is a cool way to improve effects. However, I treat them as different molecules from each other, as they are different chemically. Does that make sense?

Other MYASD lines in this thread

Related in the archive

Commentr/NootropicsDepotMay 24, 2022

Sabroxy 500 mg tabs

Replying to xabgt · You have commented in other reddit threads, that AMPK stack heavy is too stimulating. It is not necessary add other stimulants like coffee, ... What supplements to add in one AMPK

Hesperidin, EGCG, CoQSol-CF, NMN. I personally would add in quercetin, berberine, and epicatechin, too. However, that is more than 4.

3QuercetinNMNCurcuminMilk thistle
Commentr/NootropicsDepotSep 18, 2020

⚠️ NEW PRODUCT ALERT | Quercetin Tablets | 500mg | 95% Anhydrous Quercetin ⚠️

Replying to Aldarund · >However, we recently tested a few things from them, and Jarrow, Life Extension, AND NOW Foods failed Which others except tongkat and failed for what params?

Milk thistle for silymarins was one. Tongkat for eurycomanone was another. Ashwagandha for withanolides was another, but that was KSM-66 from Jarrow. Customers were saying theirs felt nothing like ours, which we then dis

2BacopaLion’s maneTongkat aliAshwagandha
Commentr/NootropicsDepotOct 17, 2024

petition for ND to change the filler 'maltodextrin' to something else

We almost never use maltodextrin in our formulations. We purposely avoid it, not because of compelling science, but because it is just easier to agree and move on than fight that fight. However, what most consumers don't

68QuercetinCurcumin
Commentr/NootropicsDepotJan 9, 2021

MisterYouAreSoDumb, what is your current stack and why?

My base stack stays pretty consistent, but I have modified some things. * Reacta-C * Vitamin D3/K2 (not released yet) * CoQSol-CF * Our Yeast Extract * Microzinc * Berberine/Silymarin * Our EGCG tablets * Our (-)-epicat

34BacopaTongkat aliAgmatineQuercetin
Commentr/NootropicsDepotOct 27, 2022

⚠️ NEW PRODUCTS ALERT | Quercefit Quercetin Phytosome Capsules, Berberine Phytosome Capsules, & Infini-C Optimized Vitamin C Capsules⚠️

Replying to LifelessPolymath53 · Love that there’s a new Berberine! The silymarin had weird effect on me so I had to go with another brand.

I've switched to the new berberine as well. We are going to be reformulating our berberine/silymarin tablets soon with a new milk thistle extract we developed. We are also working on another completely different berberin

22QuercetinMilk thistle
Commentr/NootropicsDepotApr 24, 2022

Herbs for losing a few pounds?

Berberine/silymarin, quercetin, hesperidin, EGCG, epicatechin, saffron, and tart cherry. You combine that stack with intermittent fasting, and you should lose weight. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S

16QuercetinSaffronMilk thistle