Comment · Sat, January 30, 2021 · ND Owner
Some info before next order
Original post in this thread
faxmulder · 4 points
Hi guys,
Do you have any experience with the following supps?
1. gotu kola and oleamide: which is the best one for improving sleep quality? I'm having too much REM sleep and not enough deep sleep. I'm going to combine them with lemon balm
2. berberine: is it true that it could cause constipation? Could it drop blood glucose too low and cause hypoglicemia after extended usage?
Hope that also /u/MisterYouAreSoDumb would chime in :)
Thanks a lot!
What they were answering
GNATUS_THYRSI · 6 points
With all due respect, how is berberine safer than metformin? Metformin is rather well studied. More natural? Keeping BG even is one goal, but insulin itself is problematic, so the other goal, generally (unless your a bodybuilder etc), is to lower secretion. You have to ask where the problem is. Cellular resistance or hepatic gluconeogenesis? Meformin has been whack overhyped, but if you're looking to slow down the liver, there's nothing like it. However, used chronically, you're living with elevated lactate. Last I was looking at this, berberine was up regulating AMPK and glycolytic pathways, and used chronically, this seems unwise from a cancer perspective. Regardless, my experience was that berberine doubled transit time. No go for me, literally.
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · ND Owner
Did you read the study I linked above? It goes into great detail, and there are a ton of other studies on berberine. Also, there is evidence that berberine either has no effect on insulin levels, or lowers them.
Effects of Berberine on Glucose Metabolism In Vitro
The strongest antihyperglycemic effect was observed at normal glucose, thus berberine may be helpful to decrease insulin release in the fasting state and do good to beta-cell function. In brief, berberine might be beneficial for islets function recovery in diabetes or in pre-diabetes. Berberine might not bring about fasting hypoglycemia because no insulin release is stimulated.
Berberine inhibits PTP1B activity and mimics insulin action
BBR lowers hyperglycemia and improves impaired glucose tolerance, but does not increase insulin release and synthesis. The results suggest that BBR represents a different class of anti-hyperglycemic agents.
The study I linked in my first comment went into the safety a bit. Metformin can't be given to patients with impaired liver function, because of the strain it puts on it. In fact, berberine improved liver function.
Metformin and rosiglitazone are first-line drugs for T2DM in the clinic; however, they are not recommended for patients with impaired liver function[39,40]. It has become a clinical issue for Chinese physicians because of the increased population of patients with T2DM in China. As BBR effectively increases InsR expression in the HBV-transfected human liver cells, we consider it a potential option for hyperglycemic patients with hepatitis. The clinical study was conducted in hepatitis patients diagnosed withT2DM or IFG, an intermediate state between normal and diabetes mellitus[41]. Our results demonstrated that BBR was safe and lowered blood glucose significantly in these patients. Liver function of the hepatitis patients improved after BBR treatment, agreeing with the observation of BBR in treating hyperlipidemic patients with liver diseases[24]. Taken together, as BBR enhances insulin sensitivity in peripheral tissues through a protein kinase C–dependent InsR up-regulation and always shows convincing safety record in patients, we strongly suggest this natural compound to be an ideal medicine for T2DM.
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Meformin has been whack overhyped, but if you're looking to slow down the liver, there's nothing like it.
What do you mean "slow down" the liver?
Last I was looking at this, berberine was up regulating AMPK and glycolytic pathways, and used chronically, this seems unwise from a cancer perspective.
Metformin also targets AMPK, though. Both berberine and metformin are activating AMPK and glycolysis. Are you seeing something I am not that would indicate berberine is doing it in such a way that would be harmful from a cancer perspective? In fact, I am seeing evidence that berberine has positive effects in relation to cancer.
Berberine-induced autophagic cell death by elevating GRP78 levels in cancer cells
Here, we report that berberine can induce autophagic cancer cell death by elevating levels of GRP78. These results further demonstrated that berberine enhanced GRP78 by suppression of ubiquitination / proteasomal degradation of GRP78 and activation of ATF6. Moreover, fluorescence spectrum assay revealed that berberine could bind to GRP78 and form complexes. Finally, co-IP analysis showed that the ability of GRP78 to bind to VPS34 was increased with berberine treatment. Taken together, our results suggest that berberine induces autophagic cancer cell death via enhancing GRP78 levels and the ability of GRP78 to bind to VPS34.
Effects of Berberine and Its Derivatives on Cancer: A Systems Pharmacology Review
Numerous studies have shown that berberine and its derivatives demonstrate important anti-tumor effects. However, the specific underlying mechanism remains unclear. Therefore, based on systems pharmacology, this review summarizes the information available on the anti-tumor effects and mechanism of berberine and its derivatives. The action and potential mechanism of action of berberine and its derivatives when used in the treatment of complex cancers are systematically examined at the molecular, cellular, and organismic levels. It is concluded that, with further in-depth investigations on their toxicity and efficacy, berberine and its derivatives have the potential for use as drugs in cancer therapy, offering improved clinical efficacy and safety.
As a natural compound with both anti-inflammatory and anti-tumor activities, berberine shows great potency in cancer treatment. Furthermore, as the anti-inflammatory and anti-tumor activities of berberine are not particularly strong, the structural modification of berberine is necessary and has good prospects. Previous reports of structural modifications to berberine have mainly focused on a single site, such as the C-8, C-9, C-12, C-13 position. However, this study is the first to systematically evaluate the structural modifications of berberine for the treatment of inflammation and cancer in the digestive system.
Learning from berberine: Treating chronic diseases through multiple target
This review addresses BBR’s molecular mechanisms of action and clinical efficacy and safety in patients with type 2 diabetes, hyperlipidemia, heart diseases, cancers and inflammation. One of the advantages of BBR is its multiple-target effects in each of these diseases. The therapeutic efficacy of BBR may reflect a synergistic regulation of these targets, resulting in a comprehensive effect against these various chronic disorders. The safety of BBR may be due to its harmonious distribution into those targets. Although the single-target concept is still the principle for drug discovery and research, this review emphasizes the concept of a multiple target strategy, which may be an important approach toward the successful treatment of multifactorial chronic diseases.
Berberine has shown anticancer properties and has potential for a chemopreventive and/or chemotherapeutic agent for breast cancer. Berberine showed cytotoxicity to breast cancer cells, with an increase in the levels of p21/cip1 and p27/kip1, cyclin-dependent kinase inhibitors (CDKI), but mechanisms involved in up-regulating these molecules are largely unknown. Herein, we studied the key regulatory mechanisms involved in berberine-mediated up-regulation of p21/cip1 and p27/kip1.
Perhaps you can link some studies that you found concerning? Everything I can find is that berberine is safe and effective. Moreover, berberine is neuroprotective as well.
Berberine also up-regulates BDNF and has mood-boosting properties.
Berberine produces antidepressant-like effects in ovariectomized mice
Pharmacological effects of berberine on mood disorders
Berberine seems to be very studied, and shown to be not only effective, but safe. However, if I am missing something I would love to know. It also depends on what you are using berberine for. It has many different effects, and I am sure Metformin can be more effective in some parameters in the treatment of disease. However, when talking to people on a nootropics forum, I am definitely confident in suggesting berberine. I am not suggesting anyone that is prescribed Metformin drop it for berberine without their doctor's involvement. I would never suggest that. However, people using Metformin non-clinically for specific benefits they researched should look into berberine instead.