Some info before next order

Ahh, got it. Yeah, "more natural" was just an off-the-cuff simplification. The actual situation is a lot more complex than simplifying it down like that, I agree. I also agree that metformin is better at acutely affecting levels. Berberine is more a regular every day dosing soft of thing.

It's going to take me awhile to read this study drop carefully, however, in my reading of the initial study I noted that fasting glucose of >150 was needed to enter. At that level, you probably shouldn't be self medicating, and for me that drew into question the relevance to healthy adults.

Yeah, that first study was assessing things in a model of type 2 diabetes. I was more using that study as a reference for the safety and liver parameters than for acute effects in healthy people.

While physicians sometimes are reluctant to use metformin on those with (severely) decreased liver function, the concern (in my reading) is not toxicity but ketoacidosis. Correct me if wrong.

For the most part, yes. You are correct. There have been some cases of more serious hepatotoxicity, but those have mostly been in combinations with other things that also tax the liver. So it's less the metformin itself that is the issue, rather it is metformin combined with other liver-taxing compounds. Still, I know many people in the nootropics community that are taking a lot of other things. Some of those things are being metabolized by the liver. Since many of the combos people are taking here have not been studied in relation to metformin, I am just more comfortable suggesting berberine because of the lack of liver issues. It could be an over abundance of caution, though.

Admittedly, the person I respect most in this field himself switched from XR metformin to berberine, but for chronic use. I don't like the idea expecting to be on anything daily for the rest of my life other than vit D and coffee.

Got it. Yeah, metformin is likely better for acute use like that. If you are not taking it every day, perhaps berberine is not the right fit.

I do like the idea of being able to crap when I wake up (so I can train), which doesn't happen on berberine

That's an interesting side effect that I have not experienced. I wonder how many other people have issue with bowel movement regularity on berberine? I will have to ask around.

And since I mentioned oleamide: OEA. I hope you can do it. I get messed up by another vendor's OEA.

We have been working on OEA for a while. The issue is validated testing methods. We are having to build them from scratch. It's easier now that we have two mass specs. However, now the limitation is analyst time. I almost need a 3rd UPLC that we can just reserve for R&D. I bought a second UPLC-MS with the hopes of using that for R&D. However, our QC load just went up and filled that machine up. So now I am considering a 3rd one that we can just reserve for R&D work. That is, as long as we don't just up the QC load again and fill it up. LOL. We will do OEA and a few other fatty acids this year, though. They are definitely on our list.

By slow down the liver, I mean inhibit hepatic glucose production ( I can smell the deanimation). Metformin does that right away. It has its place.

Ohh, okay. That makes sense. Metformin does seems to inhibit glucose production a bit stronger on acute dosing than berberine, but they are pretty close. Here is a table showing the levels after an acute dose in rats. So metformin definitely was stronger on acute dosing. It does have its place.