Comment · Tue, September 22, 2020 · ND Owner
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NootropicsDepotCom · 22 points
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What they were answering
Parent comment was not in the public dump (deleted, or never archived).
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · ND Owner
So when they're unstable do they degrade faster, as in, they have a shorter shelf-life?
Correct. When powders are unstable, they degrade faster. Most of the time that is either via oxidation or through hydrolysis from moisture in the air.
Ok so 0.2mg/kg in mice would mean even lower value per kg in humans from what I just looked at in Google, it can't be 5-10mg/kg in humans. Infact the HED for the average human would be much lower but I'm guessing the 5-10mg dose was recommended to make up for any loss incase of low concentrations of neolignans so it seems they might have taken the active ingredient into account when making the recommendation.
So they don't cite where they got that. I searched for 0.2mg/kg and magnolia officianalis and found this study.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1527-3458.2000.tb00136.x
Behavioral evaluation through an elevated plus-maze test demonstrated that honokiol, 0.2–2 mg/kg, p.o., for 7 days, was at least 5000 times more potent than Saiboku-to.
So that is just comparing pure honokiol to a traditional Chinese formula of 10 different plants called Saiboku-to. Those results seem extremely suspect. It's a 20 year old study that I do not trust.
Previously, Watanabe et al. (39,42) showed that honokiol exhibited a central depressantaction, with successively higher doses eliciting muscle relaxation, sedation, sleeping, andanesthesia in mice. However, the dose that elicited the onset of anxiolytic activity wasalmost 100-fold lower than that reported by Watanabe et al. The level of anxiolytic ac-tivity was almost equivalent to that of diazepam but without diazepam-like side effects(21,22).
So their results showed effects at 100 times lower than other studies on it, and said it was equivalent to diazepam? Bullshit. Something is wrong with their data. I have diazepam that I have taken before. No way are sub 10mg doses of honokiol equivalent. Anybody can try it out themselves. Take 1mg diazepam one day and 1mg magnolia bark the next. Hell, take 10mg magnolia bark. You won't notice anything.