Comment · Thu, May 29, 2025 · ND Owner
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Original post in this thread
NDSocialMedia · 60 points
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What they were answering
IncreasinglyTrippy · 19 points
Questions:
1. Is the broad spectrum TA extract not have the nausea issue the older 2% one had?
2. Isn’t Mucuna pruriens generally considered a bad idea long term in terms of effects on dopamine? I swear I saw something about this in a bunch of places. I’ll try to find some references, but if you folks at ND have debunked this notion I’d love to know.
Thanks
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · ND Owner
The narrative around Mucuna/L-DOPA has always been that way, and I believed it for a long time myself. Because of this I never even gave Mucuna a chance. However, in our formulation and testing we wanted to try a bunch of different things to hit on multiple pathways. The link between dopamine and testosterone is one of them. Also, prolactin can be an issue with Tongkat, and men that deal with infertility have higher prolactin. The L-DOPA in Mucuna actually helps modulate prolactin to keep that in check. So you get the benefits of the dopamine and lowering of prolactin. Moreover, the natural L-DOPA in Mucuna has been shown to act very differently than synthetic L-DOPA. For one, the doses are much lower. You will get 30mg of L-DOPA per dose in Eurycomax, whereas pharmaceutical L-DOPA is dosed at 150mg to 1,200mg. Also, Mucuna contains phytochemical cofactors (antioxidants, β-sitosterol, and prurienine) that address the issues that L-DOPA can cause. This is why Mucuna doesn't lead to the same issues as synthetic L-DOPA. Not to mention that there is no Carbidopa in there, which there would be in a pharmaceutical setting. The dose we used is also below the threshold for dopamine receptor desensitization that has been seen in studies. This is the main reason we went with a 15% standardization rather than a higher one. When you see people having issues with Mucuna, it's usually people taking a 50% or 98% L-DOPA standardized extract in higher doses for long periods.
Regarding the Tongkat, no. This one doesn't seem to have that effect. We worked on a bunch of different Tongkat extracts for this. I think we did around 6 different extractions to test out. This cold water ultrasonic assisted extract was the one that won out for its more complex profile of actives.
Here are the chromatograms for our Tongkat extracts we sell now: https://imgur.com/a/t5h9IBN
You can see that we brought over a lot more minor actives in the cold water ultrasonic process. This gives it a very different feeling than the other extracts. We are currently working on isolating, concentrating, and characterizing these peaks to determine what they are. Then we are going to expose them to various human cells in our cell culture lab to determine what they actually do. This is going to be published in a scientific journal when we are done. We are doing a lot of work behind the scenes to push forward our understanding of Tongkat Ali and its actives!