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Comment · Mon, November 14, 2022 · ND Owner

Study: Popular dietary supplement causes cancer risk, brain metastasis

What they were answering

Direct reply to the original post in this thread.

u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · ND Owner

I have been unable to find the full study to read, and the paper is post-dated January 2023. Is the full paper out yet? My team is requesting it, but knowing what I know about the shoddiness of journalism these days, I'd question whether or not these "journalists" actually read the full paper before writing all these articles. We need to see their study design. We need to see their dosing regimens. They also developed a new bioluminescent probe to measure NR. How confident are we that novel measure is actually telling us what we think it is? Many cancer cells up-regulate NAD+ themselves. This could be just like those other studies that came out a few years ago linking phosphatidylserine to cancer.

Phosphatidylserine is a global immunosuppressive signal in efferocytosis, infectious disease, and cancer

Phosphatidylserine: A cancer cell targeting biomarker

In those, they show that cancer cells actually express PS to evade the immune system. It didn't stop people online from writing articles getting people scared about phosphatidylserine supplementation, though. However, it was more about the novel mechanism that certain cancer cells use to evade the immune response using PS. We already know certain cancers increase expression of NAD+ through the salvage pathway, to increase cellular energy for the cancer cells.

NAD+ salvage pathway in cancer metabolism and therapy

I think any pathway that increases cellular energy, or suppresses the immune system, could theoretically affect cancer spread. Cancer cells are just cells, after all. They use the same energy sources as normal cells. Your immune system still seeks them out and kills them like other cells. Where the rubber hits the road is clinical significance in humans. What doses are we talking about here? Does supplementation actually increase risk, or is the up-regulation from the cancer cells themselves doing enough on their own? I get possibly targeting certain parts of the NAD+ cycle to inhibit certain growth mechanisms of the cancer progression, but this is similar to what I have been saying about NGF for years. Yeah, increasing NGF can possibly lead to cancers spreading faster, as NGF is used by certain cancer cells to propagate. That doesn't mean we want to lower NGF, nor does it mean that any supplement that increases NGF will cause cancer in humans at reasonable doses. Hell, look at vitamin E.

Vitamin E and the Risk of Prostate Cancer- The Selenium and Vitamin E Cancer Prevention Trial \(SELECT\)

It's all about dosages, which is why we keep vitamin E doses lower than others do. Sticking to below 400iu per day is best in this case. Does that mean we avoid vitamin E at all costs? Hell no! It's all about balance. I am sure that's going to be the conclusion with NAD+/NR/NMN as well. This is also why I don't suggest people do the crazy high doses for things than some suggest. I don't think 1,000mg of NMN a day is a good idea. I also think hitting multiple parts of the NAD+ cycle is a good idea, which is why we did that in OptiNAD+ with NMN, NR, and NADH. However, I need to see the full paper on this to really form a solid opinion on it. I really hope it is out there, and we don't have to wait till January 2023 to actually read it, while the "journalists" looking for clicks get to stir up fear without actually seeing the full study.

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