Comment · Mon, March 2, 2020
Doubts about Gotu Kola's potential side effects
Original post in this thread
faxmulder · 4 points
Hi folks,
M34, normal-weight, bloodworks (overall parameters and hormones) fine, except low vit D and LH levels (the latter probably caused by low-grade varicocele).
I'd interested in trying Gotu Kola for my issues, i.e. focus, brain fog, mild anxiety and repetitive checking/OCD behaviours, dry skin, cold hands.
I've seen that GT is often advised for "being more in the present", thus I believe it could be useful in my situation.
My current daily stack is: multivitamin, resveratrol, curcumin, vit D, chlorella, N-Acetyl Glucosamine, polygala, agmatine, magnesium, grape seed extract and ornithine (for deeper sleep).
Pre-workout stack: PanaMax ginseng (cycled with rhodiola and cordyceps), alpha GPC, dynamine, citrulline, taurine and forskolin (I'm considering adding also carnosine/beta-alanine).
I have a few questions:
* Do you see any potential bad interaction or overlap by adding Gotu Kola to my daily stack?
* GT's effects on libido and testosterone production: I've seen a reference on Examine and some scary stories about testicle shrinkage :-/
* Is it okay to take agmatine daily, or would it be better to take only on workout days?
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Tha…
What they were answering
edefakiel · 1 points
Thanks for the link.
The testosterone went no significantly up in the 10mg group, yes, but down in all other groups and hormones. And the testes decreased its weight in all groups, including 10mg, and fertility dropped very significantly in all groups.
For less than this, we are in war against endocrine disruptors. I don't think that this herb is safe for reproductive health. I find this results worrisome and I think that this may cause irreversible harm to a developing embryo or child.
I am sorry for being the one coming to antagonize you in your subreddit. I respect your work and I have bought many items from your store. I just think that this herb is not safe. I may be wrong, the data is there, everyone should research it by his own.
I think that we sometimes try experimental nootropics with less proof in favor of its use that this has against it.
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb
I think we should be careful about jumping to conclusions about effects in humans based on a couple animal studies using high doses. Also, rats are not necessarily a good indicator of how humans will react from an endocrinology sense.
The toxicological reference values of various phthalates are mostly based on their anti-androgenic effects in the rat foetus; however, more and more studies show suggest that these effects do not exist in humans. Similarly, phthalates do not reduce foetal Leydig cell activity in the mouse during the beginning of testis development and in foetal marmoset, whereas they might have a weak anti-androgenic effect in rabbits. This suggests that phthalates suppress foetal Leydig cell steroidogenesis specifically in the rat.
More generally, the identification of common molecular, cellular or/and phenotypic targets in both rat and human models should precede the choice of a toxicological endpoint in the rat to accurately assess the safety threshold of any ED in humans.
I am not saying we should write off the concern, but we are FAR from settled on the subject. We are talking about a couple rat studies that everyone is citing; with one of the studies that I seriously questions the method and study design of. One study was done in Malaysia and one in Iran. Gotu kola has been used for hundreds of years in traditional medicine. If the effects were as strong and worrisome as you are implying, we would have seen more evidence of it in humans by now. I think it is kind of telling that we only have a couple rat studies from Iran and Malaysia making this link right now. We need a lot more data before we can say it is unsafe in any way for humans.