Comment · Mon, August 6, 2018 · Natrium Health & Nootropics Depot
Paul Stamets (host defence) on the use of mycelium on grain.
Original post in this thread
snocorgurgl · 29 points
Most of what I learnt about the quality of various mushroom extracts has been from things posted on this sub, which we all know is a bit of an echo chamber. I naively believed that whole fruiting bodies extracts are superior to mycelium on grain extracts, and assumed that Paul Stamets was pretty silent about why he uses supposedly inferior methods for making these supplements, but then I stumbled across the following blog on his website which brings up the issue:
https://fungi.com/blogs/articles/benefits-of-mycelium
"Testing verified both the mycelium and the cultured rice substrate as immunologically active.\ Furthermore, the mycelium and the cultured rice substrate are active in different ways, each conferring unique and complimentary immune benefits.\"
"Some vendors in the mushroom supplement space deceptively argue that mycelium grown on a grain substrate is not useful for consumers and that only mushroom fruitbodies are valuable in supporting health. These claims contradict hundreds of articles published in the scientific literature demonstrating the health-enhancing value of mushroom mycelium grown on grain substr…
What they were answering
thedeathlessrealm · 1 points
I'm not convinced he is wrong about the rice somehow adding to or complementing the medicinal effect of the mycelium. There is quite a lot on their blog about this (quote and link below), we could call it lies, but I don't think that would be a fair conclusion.... As for the traditional use of the mushrooms, that is correct, and I'd prefer to use the fruiting body too because it has a longer track history of use, but I think it would be unfair to write off mycelium+rice without more public unbias and high quality published data. I.e comparisons in vivo of different extracts against different diseases. We don't actually have this, as far as I know, so it awaits further work to really work out if the rice thing actually is worse than culturing mycelium in petri dishes or in flasks.
I have done some research and that is my view, not conclusive. There is almost no money in complementary medicine and I am not surprised there is another matter where we don't have strong enough evidence to say much with strong certainty. I think this reddit is bias against HD partially because of the ND blog and the moderators being from ND, I don't actually mind about that and don't prefer one company or the other, I think they are both good. However, it is obvious from reading the threads here over the months where most people get their opinions from as they repeat things written elsewhere without…
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · Natrium Health & Nootropics Depot
So I know that was long. Sorry about that! Let me recap:
* Host Defense is asserting that mycelium on grain is transformed into a new biomass.
* However, there is no independent peer-reviewed evidence to show that, or that the new biomass is as good or better than the fruiting body or pure cultured mycelium of the same species.
* They claim that beta-glucan testing methods are inaccurate, and don't correctly show their numbers properly.
* However, the independent AOAC has approved methods for beta-glucan analysis in mushrooms, and many world-class analytical labs have confirmed the results.
* Even if their claims about insolubility causing the methods to fail are true, the special beta-glucans in their products would not absorb through the GI tract anyway.
* Even if everything Host Defense is saying is true, then their product is STILL not a mushroom, and should be properly labeled so that people know they are not consuming a mushroom.
* The arguments on the fruiting body side of the equation are less about mycelium itself, and more about myceliated rice.
* Mycelium certainly does have interesting and unique compounds, and likely has some benefits that are unique to that life stage.
* However, the bulk of the human clinical research has used whole fruiting bodies, and that is the form that has been using for thousands of years.
* Until valid and peer-reviewed scientific evidence is published in a reputable scientific journal, one should take any assertions on myceliated rice with a very healthy level of skepticism.
* Nobody is against scientific advancement; the least of all me. If mycelium is biotransforming rice, and creating a new unique biomass, then I will welcome that discovery with open arms once there is a scientific consensus and peer-reviewed evidence showing that.