Comment · Tue, February 4, 2014 · Ceretropic
ALCAR without ALA?
Original post in this thread
oconn · 3 points
I have been taking ALCAR on it's own for a few months now without ALA and curious how important/beneficial it is to include ALA into your stack? Any advice or insight would be appreciated. Thanks!
What they were answering
silverhydra · 12 points
Have you read any convincing evidence for that actually?
I always hear it tossed around as fact in regards to the combination, but there are so many holes in the theory as it stands since:
- ALA is like vitamin C and vitamin E, a REDOX antioxidant. It will, unlike unilateral ones like astaxanthin, turn antioxidant or prooxidant depending on the situation
- No evidence really links the oxidative insults from ALCAR to any actual practical harm
- No reason why ALA is used rather than other (less expensive) antioxidants aside from 'ALA is found in the mitochondria', cuz both vitamin C and E as well as CoQ10 are also there
- Many signalling pathways, such as insulin or nF-kB signalling, actually rely on oxidation to carry the signal
I've seen evidence to support their synergism for mitochondrial proliferation but never anything practical for the oxidation claim.
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · Ceretropic
Yeah, the evidence is more for the synergism, rather than the oxidative mechanisms. The body can certainly handle the slight increase in oxidation from the ALCAR on its own. At the low doses we are talking about for cognitive supplementation, there should be little if any increase in oxidation. I believe it is more seen in higher doses for weight lifting. And then, you don't really want to take ALA, as it prevents the necessary mechanisms for muscle recovery.
For use as a cognitive enhancer, Alpha lipoic acid increases acetylcholine production by activation of choline acetyltransferase. This is useful when we are talking about mixing it with an acetyl donor like ALCAR. It also increases glucose uptake, which helps cognition. These are two things other more common antioxidants do not do.
So the use of them together is more for the synergy in enhancing cognition, rather than the little, if any, increase in oxidation from ALCAR.