Comment · Fri, November 9, 2012
Research Suggests no Neurotoxicity in MDMA
Original post in this thread
PuffyCheek · 194 points
In partial response to what I've been reading in the bestof'd thread here at /drugs, I think it would be good to start a discussion about the neurotoxicity in MDMA.
I feel as if the harmful effects discussed in the thread were overblown. According to a research done by the Harvard Medical School last year in 2011, users who were asked to use MDMA under a controlled setting over a certain period of time showed no signs of cognitive impairment nor decreased mental ability.
So the question remains, why do we have so much evidence from past research studies that show otherwise? The researchers at Harvard Medical School responded by saying that past research studies lacked a proper control environment. What that means is that past research studies did not control their test group to make sure they didn't engage in unhealthy activities after ingesting MDMA (i.e. going to a rave and dancing for 8 hours straight).
No research since 2011 has proved Harvard Medical School's conclusion wrong, that MDMA is actually harmful to your brain. No other research studies that I could personally find had settings as controlled as the one conducted by HMS.
That being said, research was done…
What they were answering
iplayloom · 0 points
Piracetam combined with stimulants increases neurotoxicity. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb
There is no evidence for that at all. I personally do not like the feeling of taking an attack dose before my roll. However, those who have built up tolerance do enjoy it. I take it after my roll.
I'm going to copy what I wrote on yet another thread.
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Piracetam is known to increase the density and permeability of NMDA receptors in the hippocampus and acetyl-choline receptors in the frontal cortex. This potentiates the activity of glutamate, potentially causing a sate of excitability. I stop short of excitotoxicity due to it's function as an allosteric modulator. However, that does not mean it's effects are all wanted. There is no doubt in my mind that piracetam potentiates MDMA and amphetamine based stimulants, as I have personally experimented with many combinations. However, with primarily dopaminergic stimulants like amphetamine, it causes a state of irritability with me. This anecdotal result fits perfectly within the studies that show increased glutamate activity at the NMDA receptors. So yes, it definitely potentiates it, but I do not personally like the feeling. Now on to MDMA. Since MDMA has a much lower affinity for DA and much higher affinity for 5-HT, piracetam's effects are slightly different. It still potentiates MDMA's activity. However, it does not cause the same irritability shown in the more dopaminergic drugs. It makes your roll slightly more lucid, which can be enjoyable to some, and annoying to others. I find that it slightly kills the empaty of the experience. I've settled on not taking any nootropics before my roll, then taking some before bed and the following week. This seems to be the best results for me. You also have to take into consideration whether this is an attack dose before the roll, or if you have been taking piracetam long term ahead of your roll. Long term administration of piracetam will be more likely to increase your NMDA receptor density than an attack does would. An attack does will have mostly a positive allosteric modulation effect at your AMPA and NMDA receptor sites.
Some more reading:
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http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006295298002950
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9121626
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2872987/
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This is why there is great debate as to whether or not piracetam increases excitotoxicity when administered with dopaminiergic drugs. It most definitely increases the effectiveness of dopamine in various areas of the brain. However, it's effects on NMDA and AMPA receptors are my obvious focus. Piracetam absolutely shows increased calcium influx into neurons, which is a main cause of excitotoxicity and tolerance. However, there is not currently conclusive evidence that it's voltage-dependent actions on those ion channels cause any damage, or if they in fact help modulate the transmission. Those people who have formed a tolerance to MDMA and amphetamines find that piracetam definitely brings back some of the magic. Since MDMA's and amphetamine's tolerance stems from a lowering of effectiveness at your gated calcium channels, and piracetam has been shown to increase influx of calcium through said channels, one can see the pharmacological reasoning for the anecdotes. What we need to figure out now is if this added influx of calcium has a limit. Does piracetam being an allosteric modulator give it the ability to close the calcium channel once a certain voltage has been reached, and is that voltage at a level before excitotoxicity comes into play? If so, then we should get potentiation without damage.