Skip to content

Comment · Thu, August 24, 2023 · ND Owner

Any side effects from Infini-B?

Original post in this thread

DDsPLZ · 18 points

Been giving infini-b once a day to a parent who has hypothyroidism due to cancer treatment 20 years ago. She's on thyroxin.

She said today she felt like she had a silent heart attack and her BP skyrocketed... now obviously could be a coincidence but it was 30-40 mins after I gave her the capsule. I did some quick searching to find someone saying they had chest pains from infini-b (but post was deleted).

I think I'm going to stop giving it to her.

Personally I have no issues and find it to be a great supplement.

Guess this thread will get downvoted and possibly deleted because the cult of ND doesn't like any negative experiences lately, but it would be nice to rule it out.

Thanks.

What they were answering

blamewho22 · 0 points

Wow, then the P5P that they use definitely can be toxic. I get it though, he’s trying to sell a product. Has to protect the integrity

u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · ND Owner

STOP LISTENING TO RANDOS ONLINE! Nobody should EVER link Wikipedia as a primary source. Anyone can edit those articles and misinterpret data. You have to read the actual studies. Wikipedia is fine to set you off in a direction to find information, but it should never be used as the data itself. The citations from that claim is from 1985. They have done more recent research showing P5P does NOT have that effect.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28716455/

In the present study, the neurotoxicity of the different forms of vitamin B6 is tested on SHSY5Y and CaCo-2 cells. Cells were exposed to pyridoxine, pyridoxamine, pyridoxal, pyridoxal-5-phosphate or pyridoxamine-5-phosphate for 24h, after which cell viability was measured using the MTT assay. The expression of Bax and caspase-8 was tested after the 24h exposure. The effect of the vitamers on two pyridoxal-5-phosphate dependent enzymes was also tested. Pyridoxine induced cell death in a concentration-dependent way in SHSY5Y cells. The other vitamers did not affect cell viability. Pyridoxine significantly increased the expression of Bax and caspase-8. Moreover, both pyridoxal-5-phosphate dependent enzymes were inhibited by pyridoxine. In conclusion, the present study indicates that the neuropathy observed after taking a relatively high dose of vitamin B6 supplements is due to pyridoxine. The inactive form pyridoxine competitively inhibits the active pyridoxal-5'-phosphate. Consequently, symptoms of vitamin B6 supplementation are similar to those of vitamin B6 deficiency.

They even go into the mechanism. High levels of pyridoxine can inhibit the P5P enzymes, causing a drop in B6 function. So taking too much pyridoxine fucks up the body's ability to create the active P5P form. Supplementing P5P itself does NOT have that effect. Even if you read the full paper from 1985, it doesn't say what the Wikipedia citation claims.

http://62.182.86.140/scimag/7026711/Neurotoxicity%20of%20pyridoxine%20analogs%20is%20related%20to%20coenzyme%20structure%20%28Molecular%20and%20Chemical%20Neuropathology%20%28Neurochemical%20Pathology%29%2C%20vol.%203%2C%20issue%203%29%20%281985%29.pdf

The observation that the phosphorylated derivative was not toxic also suggested that it was not a physical effect of the molecule on the cell membrane that produced cell injury. Several mechanisms might account for the correlation between ability to serve as active coenzyme and toxic effect. In high concentrations, pyridoxine compounds combine together or with a second unidentified intracellular constituent to inhibit the pyridoxal. This might involve the formation of a hydrazone or other molecule similar to that produced with isoniazid (McCormick and Snell, 1959; McCormick et al., 1960; McCormick and Snell, 1961). These derivatives inhibit pyridoxal kinase (ATP:pyridoxal 5-phosphotransferase, EC 2.7.1.35) that catalyzes the production of the phosphorylated coenzymes from pyridoxine, pyridoxal, or pyridoxamine. The nonphosphorylated compounds are inactive as coenzymes and presumably binding to pyridoxal phosphate-dependent enzymes is low. However, if the concentration is high enough, nonphosphorylated derivatives may bind competitively at the coenzyme site and block active coenzyme binding (Rudman and Williams, 1983). There is evidence that coenzyme attachment to the apoenzyme involves binding at two different sites on the molecule (Shive and Lansford, 1980). In massive doses, two coen- zyme molecules might become bound to the active site, one at each of the usual binding sites, rendering the enzyme inactive. At least one enzyme, pyridoxal kinase, is inhibited by excessive amounts of pyridoxal. However, in the latter case pyridoxal is the substrate rather than the coenzyme. The favored hypothesis is that one specific enzyme system is inhibited by excess pyridoxine or its analogs. If this were pyridoxal kinase one might expect inhibition of many pyridoxal phosphate-dependent enzyme systems. However, the animals and the humans who were studied extensively (Schaumburg et al., 1983; Windebank et al., in press) did not show any systemic ill effects. This suggests that either there is an enzyme system (that might be a neuron-specific pyridoxal kinase) restricted to neurons in general or to DRG neurons in particular. The former possibility might be manifested only at the DRG level because increasing blood levels of pyridoxine did not increase the levels in the central nervous system (Spector, 1978a,b; Bender and Totoe, 1984), because of the presence of an apparent BBB and a saturable uptake mechanism for these compounds (Spector, 1978a,b). However, as discussed above, the BBB is less competent at the DRG and toxin concentrations are potentially much higher than at other places in the peripheral or central nervous system.

So even in the 1985 paper they showed it was only an issue with nonphosphorylated B6 derivatives. They even postulated what was later proved to be true, that it was a competitive inhibition of enzyme inhibition by nonphosphorylated compounds. This does NOT apply to the phosphorylated P5P form. There have been ZERO documented cases of B6 toxicity from P5P. If your read the papers, it's actually a REDUCTION in P5P from too much pyridoxine inhibiting the enzyme used to convert B6 to its active P5P form. This is why toxicity from too much pyridoxine acts more like a P5P deficiency, because that's what it really does. It lowers the active P5P form by competitively binding and inhibiting the enzyme responsible for making P5P.

Other MYASD lines in this thread

Related in the archive

Postr/NootropicsDepotJun 11, 2022

Lab Testing Results Of Turkesterone, Beta Ecdysterone, and Gorilla Mind Sigma

Okay, so I am finally getting around to make a post about the results of some of the lab testing we have been doing. I've had the results for a bit, but I've been holding off on officially releasing them because frankly

866436BacopaTongkat aliAshwagandha
Commentr/NootropicsDepotDec 3, 2024

Found this bad boy while cleaning my garage today... empty😭

Replying to MisterPaulAna · they should have a seperate research chemical company for laboratory and scientific development use only :)

The United States government tried to put me in prison for 20 years. They raided our facility with over 50 armed federal agents from 6 federal agencies. They held my team at gunpoint and tore apart our offices. They seiz

300
Postr/NootropicsDepotJul 18, 2023

Independent Lab Testing Results Of Supplements On The Market

Hey everyone, I saw a new research study today that I wanted to bring up. It highlights why my main mission over the past 10 years has been to not only advance the lab testing and quality control standards of the indust

20422Dosing
Postr/NootropicsDepotSep 26, 2024

The New Nootropics Depot Is Now Live!

https://preview.redd.it/qxh8jfcsl7rd1.png?width=3813&format=png&auto=webp&s=e4d337781631aeb644a2c8c39e4446b04d47b86b After a long 9 month development process, I am proud to announce that the new Nootropics Depot si

16769Tongkat aliCOA
Postr/NootropicsDepotJun 30, 2023

Cyanidin 3-Glucoside Mycotoxin Test Results

After our recent release of Cyanidin 3-Glucoside, some concern was raised by Redditors regarding possible mycotoxin levels in it. I think some people in the industry have overhyped the risk of mycotoxin contamination, as

16229
Postr/NootropicsDepotFeb 21, 2020

⚠️🔬 Recent Industry Recalls and Safety Notices 🔬⚠️

Many of our customers have been receiving emails from Amazon and other retailers/marketplaces discussing an important product safety notification. This safety notification is in regards to a nationwide recall from a larg

15773Ashwagandha