Comment · Sun, April 7, 2013 · Ceretropic
Skepticism on 5-HTP's Possible Cardiological Risk - Thoughts?
Original post in this thread
[deleted] · 30 points
5-HTP is recommended to be taken with a decarboxylase inhibitor (such as EGCG) so that 1. the 5-HTP isn't converted into serotonin until it reaches the brain and 2. Because serotonin agonism on the heart (which would happen with peripherally-converted serotonin) causes the muscles to stiffen, potentially leading to cardiac fibrosis in the long term.
Something hit me today - SSRIs block the reuptake of serotonin all around the body (that's part of why they tend to increase appetite/lead to weight gain). Blocking reuptake = more serotonin able to bind to receptors = increased serotonin agonism, including on the heart. With the potency and daily use needed for SSRIs, shouldn't we be seeing people who have used such medications for years developing cardiac fibrosis?
It's paradoxical to me. Chances are, I'm missing a key piece of information here. What do you guys think about this?
What they were answering
probablytoomuch · 2 points
Ah. I appreciate the clarification. I generally post on /r/drugs so I have an unfortunate habit of trying to accomodate and nip common misconceptions in the bud so I don't have to come back and respond to each response individually- however, as you can tell, I seem to come off needlessly standoffish in an environment that doesn't really necessitate that sort of prediction. The late nights trying to explain the pharmacology of psychedelics has flavored my responses a tad too much- I appreciate the point.
For what it's worth-- I really don't like SSRI's... I admire they can help a good many people but I (personally) fucking hate them. I must have slipped if I said I was on them, because I'm not. -- I actually prefer/use the newer atypical antidepressants like mirtazipine (technically a tetracyclic antidepressant) combined with a mood stabilizer (lithium) to get the job done. TCA's and SSRI's just seem too effective at nullifying mood issues sometimes, makes ya too numb- again, IMHO. Bacopa's a good supplement, too. No doubt. I just think it's kind of awesome we can sit and be able to discuss various options for something that --not too long ago-- didn't have any treatment options whatsoever, or place in conversation.
How about this-- with us both examining the variables at play and coming to different conclusions, shall we agree to disagree? I'm sure when the study comes out…
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · Ceretropic
No worries. I post a lot on /r/Drugs too, so I understand how using an absolutionist tone can be beneficial. Usually I am in the MDMA posts, since that is what I have the most knowledge in. Also, I might be a little more prone to defensiveness on this subject, since I wrote the FAQ section on 5-HTP and EGCG.
I think you and I mostly agree on the subject, save for long term 5-HTP use. I prefer to keep the rate limiting step of tryptophan hydroxylase in play for long term supplementation. For what it's worth, I use 5-HTP for short periods of time. This is usually following an MDMA dose, since it's metabolite THA lowers tryptophan hydroxylase up to 90%. The only way to replenish 5-HT stores when that happens, is 5-HTP. I actually took some 5-HTP last night, since I tried out 6-APB on Friday night. My go to regimen for mood is SJW and bacopa. The 5-HT receptor modulation and up-regulation that occurs with those substances is very effective and sustainable long term.
For now we can agree to slightly disagree. I'll do some more research into some things, since you have got me thinking. It's always good to have opposing viewpoints, as it motivates me to dig deeper into the subject!