Comment · Sun, April 7, 2013 · Ceretropic
Skepticism on 5-HTP's Possible Cardiological Risk - Thoughts?
Original post in this thread
[deleted] · 30 points
5-HTP is recommended to be taken with a decarboxylase inhibitor (such as EGCG) so that 1. the 5-HTP isn't converted into serotonin until it reaches the brain and 2. Because serotonin agonism on the heart (which would happen with peripherally-converted serotonin) causes the muscles to stiffen, potentially leading to cardiac fibrosis in the long term.
Something hit me today - SSRIs block the reuptake of serotonin all around the body (that's part of why they tend to increase appetite/lead to weight gain). Blocking reuptake = more serotonin able to bind to receptors = increased serotonin agonism, including on the heart. With the potency and daily use needed for SSRIs, shouldn't we be seeing people who have used such medications for years developing cardiac fibrosis?
It's paradoxical to me. Chances are, I'm missing a key piece of information here. What do you guys think about this?
What they were answering
probablytoomuch · 2 points
Indeed, but when anecdotes are the unfortunate reality we must rely on, anecdotes become the answer in discussion. As such, I felt like my input could be worthwhile to someone- but that is all that it is, input. I did not attempt to make any claim that I am in a medical profession, nor am I dispensing legally binding medical advice. Furthermore, I don't have the experience necessary to state my claims in an objective manner- and for that I must apologize, it is unbecoming to mix opinion with fact so lucidly.
And I'm just the teeniest bit offended by the response- it is... unnecessarily aggressive? I may be too sensitive.
But on a personal note-- I will not yield on personal use. I did not state I have problems with serotonin production- but consider the insanely stabilizing and "zombifying" the effects of chronic and high doses of lithium can yield. When my options are limited in terms of antidepressants and such that are generally limited by cocomittant use- utilizing a hidden benefit of lithium is an asset I hold most dear.
Furthermore, the broad statements regarding physical damage to the peripheral nervous system is unsubstantiated at best- I can respect that you have good sources on some of your claims, but they are not the claims at dispute here. They are sources for things that I was not denying. I will admit that I cannot come up with any definitive studies on the c…
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb · Ceretropic
Perhaps it was just the tone conveyed by using the word "bunk" that made me take your comment wrong. The controversy has basis in proven mechanisms, and should not be completely written off. Do I think the risks are overstated? Yes, I do believe they are. However, there are other reasons to prevent excess peripheral serotonin. Those issues always seem to take a back seat to the heart valve discussion, which does them a disservice.
I'm not attacking your anecdotal information. Your personal success has just as much place in discussion as proven studies. On the flip side to that, so do the anecdotes from those that use EGCG and 5-HTP together for better results. The reason my response was so direct was because your comment was so direct. I understand your position, but it is far from proven. Your comment was worded to leave very little room for opposing viewpoints. Again, it's probably the fact that it was grouped with controversy on the concept of elevated 5-HT levels being bunk. If I mistook your intentions, I apologize.
Having gone through depression myself, I understand the significance of your anecdotal stance regarding SSRIs. However, that is a class of drugs that can also do a lot of damage to certain people. Positioning it as the best solution for everyone is not objective. Again, it's probably just the wording that threw me off. I think SJW is a great supplement, and am actually taking it right now. I also think bacopa is great for modulating the serotonin system. I feel that using 5-HTP for depression is a bad way of going about treating it, regardless of peripheral issues.
Regarding the cancer risk with polyphenols, I have done some study on the subject. I will read through the studies you linked and come up with a position on the matter.