Comment · Tue, April 16, 2013
Questions/discussion on MDMA neurotoxicity? Warning: long/controversial post
Original post in this thread
drpotatoe · 27 points
I’m curious, what is the definition of MDMA-induced neurotoxicity in layman’s terms? Is this damage permanent? Does neurotoxicity refer to complete neuronal death or just peripheral damage to the neuron?
Dr. Carhart-Harris wrote this in his AMA:
There's no known cell death with either drug (psilocybin vs. MDMA) but MDMA can damage serotonin cell fibres in large doses.
To clarify, I’m not looking for sources. I’m very aware of the underlying pharmacological science (MDMA metabolites are theorized to be neurotoxic). I own Ecstasy: The Complete Guide, I have B.S. in psychology (not pharmacology, but close enough), I participate in MAPS events, etc. etc., I’m just looking for a legitimate conversation on this topic between intellectuals aware of the science, without asking for sources. If we’re on this sub, we should be aware of the science, right?
What I’m about to say is controversial and will be attacked, but hear me out:
I believe that MDMA-induced neuroxicity is overhyped on reddit. Every pharmaceutical and recreational drug I am aware of is neurotoxic. Yes, I am aware of the animal/human studies conducted with MDMA that demonstrate (or do not demonstrate) the harms of…
What they were answering
drugz_r_bad · 1 points
There is no proof that is the MDMA alone that causes the toxicity noted in most of those studies. Taking chronic users from the streets and basing your results off of them is a pretty skewed sample. Hyperthermia, dehydration, binging, improper dosages, cut drugs, etc. all lead to brain damage. You're saying we can pump people full of pharmaceuticals and none of those exhibit "neurotoxicity"?
Would you rather have extremely slight, if any memory problems, or crippling PTSD? The type of PTSD that will bring people to kill themselves?
u/MisterYouAreSoDumb
What are you arguing?!? The mechanisms for 5-HT system toxicity are PROVEN! These studies I linked are merely ones that looked a past human users to see if we can measure deficits. I have many many more studies showing the mechanisms for toxicity. It's not even up for debate. MDMA is neurotoxic to humans.
Would you rather have extremely slight, if any memory problems, or crippling PTSD? The type of PTSD that will bring people to kill themselves?
I use MDMA! I fully support the use of MDMA, especially for PTSD. That does not mean that we overlook the evidence. I know how to protect from MDMA induced neurotoxicity. If I had let myself be blinded by my own bias, I would have never dug deep enough to find out how to protect myself.
http://www.reddit.com/r/DrugNerds/comments/13lp0b/mdma_neurotoxicity_part_1_metabolites/
http://www.reddit.com/r/DrugNerds/comments/15m9sf/mdma_supplementation/