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Comment · Tue, April 28, 2020

Timeline of when you'll have 7,8-DHF back in stock?

Original post in this thread

pbjandahighfive · 10 points

Just went to place my order and see that the 7,8-DHF powder is all gone. Just wondering if it's going to be a while before it's back or only a few days. Planning on making a pretty large purchase (compared to my usual at least) so if it's only going to be a few days I'll wait.

What they were answering

varvela · 4 points

but we failed it on assay.

Why I order from ND right here.

Out of curiosity though, what’s the recourse you have against the manufacturer in those cases? Are you just out the money that you spend on the batch or is payment contingent on successful assay?

u/MisterYouAreSoDumb

Depends on our relationship with that supplier. We spend millions of dollars a year with our suppliers. So they know if they don't take back batches we reject, they will lose way more money in the long run. We use our size to hold them accountable. However, if it is a newer supplier that we don't do a lot of volume through, it can sometimes be a challenge to get them to agree to refund us. Sometimes we have to just eat the cost of that batch. In those cases, we blacklist that supplier from any future ordering. It takes a long time to build up good relationships with reliable suppliers.

Sometimes we have to get creative on rejections, too. India is strange. The Indian government subsidizes some things. So there have been a couple times we have gotten things directly from an Indian manufacturer that we have had to reject. In those cases, the Indian government does not allow refunds. So the suppliers have to give us credit, but we can only use like 20% of the credit at a time. So while we might get the money back, we have to place multiple new orders with that supplier to get it. We have even had subsequent batches from that supplier fail. So we are left with credits we can't really use, since we don't want to keep getting batches in that we have to reject. We are the only ones holding things to some of these higher standards, so many suppliers get upset at us because we are the only ones rejecting batches that everyone else is accepting. In those cases it can sometimes take 6 months to a year to work through things. At any one point in time, we might have tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in raw material that we have paid for, but can't use. When I first started the company, that became an issue multiple times. There were a couple points in the early Ceretropic days where if I had been scammed one more time, or gotten one more bad batch that the suppliers would not refund me for, I would have had to shut the company down. It's hard being one of the only ones willing to lose money instead of selling something impure. However, these days we are much bigger, have more pull, and are a lot more stable. So it is not a risk for us now. Still sucks, but it does not affect the survival of the company anymore.

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