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Comment · Mon, December 9, 2019

Epicor and 22% NGF reduction

Original post in this thread

throw_my_username · 12 points

Was reading this post and got quite worried, especially since the company behind Epicor makes it sound like a good thing.

/u/MisterYouAreSoDumb you seem to advocate for this supplement a lot. Care to comment on potential implications?

Was thinking of buying some on ND but go stopped by this.

What they were answering

Direct reply to the original post — see the thread post above.

u/MisterYouAreSoDumb

Everyone is completely misinterpreting those statements based solely off Embria's marketing page... They give the citations. We should look at the study in questions, rather than just post a marketing page from the patent holder.

A Dried Yeast Fermentate Prevents and Reduces Inflammationin Two Separate Experimental Immune Models

Study 1: Inflammation Prevention/Reduction Model.Theimpact of a 14-day preventive treatment with DF compared to controls was determined. The percentage changes in paw volumes in the carrageenan, compared to the saline paws, were significantly different (P<0.05), as was expected from this model. The percentage change in paw volume for the carrageenan-injected rats given DF compared to vehicle was significantly less (P<0.05) at all time points(Figure 1). In the case of the vehicle and DF-treated saline-injected rats, it is of interest to note that the inflammatory response was less in the DF-treated rats at all time points, although this was not statistically significant. PGE2 in paw tissue from carrageenan-injected rats was significantly(P<0.05) reduced for DF-fed compared to vehicle-fed animals (Figure 2). Levels of PGE2 were lower in the saline paws of DF-treated rats, but the results were not significantly different. Though there was a decrease in PGE2 concentrations in the carrageenan-injected paws compared to saline-injected paws of vehicle-fed rats, the difference was not significant. The increase in PGE2 concentration insaline-injected paws is expected in vehicle-fed rats and maybe attributed to an inflammation resulting from the site of injection. There was also a non significant 22% reduction in NGF levels in the DF group compared to the vehicle group. NGF levels were significantly lower (P<0.05) in the saline compared to the carrageenan-injected paws in the control group demonstrating the impact of this compound on inducing increased levels of tissue NGF. No statistical differences in the weights of the animals were observed during the entire testing period (data not shown).
Increases in NGF are associated with discomfort and pain with inflammatory responses because it impacts mast cells and afferent neurons [9,22]. The excessive production of NGF found in past studies of allergic rhinitis patients is again of interest [23,24], because one of our past DF clinical trials provided tangible symptomatic benefits against this condition [6]. Recent research has also suggested that a mechanistic route for a future efficacious pain ameliorating medication may be via an anti-NGF mechanism [25,26]. NGF is such a profound primary mediator of chronic pain that even vaccine research has been initiated in this area of medicine [27]. The moderate but significant reduction in NGF observed in our study in DF-fed rats with carrageenan-injected paws compared to controls may be another explanation for the immune modulating impact of DF. Yet, it must be kept in mind that NGF also appears to inhibit immune suppressive signaling and promotes temporary steroid receptor insensitivity in some leukocytes [28–30]. In other words, again the interplay of multiple compounds involved in immune activity suggests that modulation rather than excessive reduction or stimulation would explain some of the clinical findings with DF[4–8].

This was an animal model designed to assess inflammation and pain response. They injected the paws of rats with carrageenan, which causes inflammation. When they did that, NGF went up along with pain and inflammation. The increase in NGF was a response to the pro-inflammatory carrageenan injected into the paws. Epicor prevented that excess increase of NGF when carrageenan was injected into the paws. It did NOT decrease NGF in the brain or in saline injected animals. It prevented the increase in NGF in the animals that had carrageenan injected into their paws. This was strictly an inflammation and pain model. It was NOT a model of how Epicor might affect NGF levels in the brain of normal animals. NGF is a pro-inflammatory mediator in parts of the body. Excess NGF in ares of the body is BAD. Epicor prevented the excess NGF release in response to a pro-inflammatory substance being injected into the paws of animals. This is GOOD. They talk about how it is positively modulating NGF, similar to how adaptogens modulate glutamate to healthy levels.

People should be careful not to jump to conclusions because they misinterpret a sentence from a excerpt from a study. Read that actual studies being referenced, then come to a sound conclusion based off a full picture of the evidence and the scientific and statistical model being used.

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